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U/W post 10th lockdown


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cheesypirate



Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:29 pm    Post subject: U/W post 10th lockdown Reply with quote

I don't know if it's viable or anything in tournament play, but I was looking around the spoiler for 10th and I noticed a lockdown combo involving Vedalken Mastermind, Rule of Law and Venser. You keep returning Venser so you can bounce all their spells. I haven't come up with a definitive list for it yet. Any suggestions?
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cheesypirate



Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a list.

Land-
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Nimbus Maze
1 Tolaria West
1 Urza's Factory
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
6 Island

Creatures
4 Venser
4 Vedalken Mastermind
4 Court Hussar
4 Willbender

Spells
4 Remand
4 Wrath of God
4 Discombobulate
4 Rule of Law
4 Azorious Signet


Last edited by cheesypirate on Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:53 pm; edited 5 times in total
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tato-



Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 126
Location: Colombia

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

8 repeal?? heh...

+4 remand
+4 cancel
+ teferi maybe?

where's winning condition??
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toguppy



Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol, splash black for megrim Very Happy make em discard a card every turn hehehe. on a side note conider WoG as the deck can easily take till turn 6-7 before it had its combo parts.
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thedarkness



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 580

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The real problem here is that the lock is hard to get on a reliable time frame, and since Rule of Law works both ways, you'll be hard pressed to clear the board, and there will be one by the time you pull this off.

I'm too tired to offer an interesting solution to the problem, but I just thought I'd point it out.

rofl..sideboarded krosan grips aside, megrim + 1 swamp is a viable win condition. XP Since your opponent is totally locked until oh..the game ends..you might as well have a way to end it. Razz Even as a 1-of, megrim + swamp wins. rofl
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Ph33P-3po



Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heres my U/W combo/lockdown

// Lands
4 [DIS] Ghost Quarter
2 [FUT] Tolaria West
4 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
4 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
4 [9E] Plains (4)
4 [MR] Island (4)

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
2 [RAV] Drift of Phantasms
2 [TSB] Akroma, Angel of Wrath
3 [TSP] Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
4 [FD] Vedalken Mastermind
4 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant

// Spells
4 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [CS] Rune Snag
4 [TSP] Cancel
3 [9E] Wrath of God
4 [MR] Rule of Law

its got your combo with venser and crucible + mindcensor + Ghost Quarter to ensure they dont have lands

-4 Cancel
+4 Counterbalance

EDIT:MWAHAHAHA FEAR THE COUNTERBALANCE!!! look at my choice AND BE AMUSED!!!! RAWR!!!!...

counterbalance ~ Beacause sometimes i just dont want to pay for counterspell...

EDIT2: Also is there anything in Xth that breaks CB?
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cheesypirate



Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
its got your combo with venser and crucible + mindcensor + Ghost Quarter to ensure they dont have lands


Why do you care if they don't have lands?
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Eldar



Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 435
Location: Rochester

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This may be terrible but I like mastermind with reality acid Very Happy.
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Blah234



Joined: 19 Nov 2005
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*puts Krosan Grip into SB and sneaks away*
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rockshard



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just found out you can replace Vedalken Mastermind with Sunken Hope. It's more expensive, but it has no activation cost and stalls your opponent as well. It also leaves you free to Wrath anytime (before or after the lock) without destroying your Mastermind.

I believe Sunken Hope is better. The advantage of Mastermind costing less is nullified if you can't Wrath later.
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toguppy



Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i really like the idea of sunken hope actually... it handles the creatures while venser handles the spells. and on a side note court hussar ftw with sunken hope Very Happy the deck needs a good win condition though. perhaps run teferi to prevent counter ruining your day.
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marten2



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

do you actually realise this is just a very soft lock? in case of the sunken hope, your opponents can either have krosan grip at any time, or just wait untill the sunken hope stacks in your upkeep and kill venser or destroy the sunken hope, or the rule of law in response, so that you can't venser their action, because it isn't in your hand yet.
that said, the mastermind is actually better, because you can return at any time. it is still not good enough though, because you opponent will just eot try to destroy your mastermind, which you can still remand with venser. on their own turn however, when they will try it again, you will probably not have enough mana left to return and replay venser, so you have to bounce your mastermind to counter their spell, leaving them the opportunity to kill venser or rule of law in your upkeep or in response to vedalken mastermind.
I have no solution for this problem, I just wanted to point out this lock is not quite solid as it is now
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rockshard



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea it's a pretty soft lock, so the question is how seamlessly can it be put into any U/x list.

For that reason I think Sunken Hope is better because it is more flexible and durable.

Sunken Hope and Venser is quite good even without Rule of Law. (bounce two things a turn)

It's obvious with Court Hussar. And if you run Loxodon Hierarch or Angel of Despair, well....

You can use it with red deck adding Keldon Marauders, you can run Electrolyze as well.

Civic Wayfinder becomes really funny here.
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marten2



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol, we started helping someone with a lock idea, but we end up with a completely different deck idea. Also, maybe sunken hope could be a nice addition to a blink deck Smile
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cheesypirate



Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fixed the Sudden Death/Krosan Grip problem with Willbender. Anybody have ideas on a SB, or if Willbender is any good, or if there are other possible choices to replace the Bender with? I was also thinking about putting counterbalance in because of Discombobulate but idk what to take out for it.
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