Split second damage and regenerate

GhostYou2 · Joined: 16 Aug 2006 Posts: 8

can you regenarte after split secound damage is dealt?

E.g. Augur of Skulls hit with Sudden death can you regenerate to stop it going to the graveyard or does split secound pervent it.

I think damage is resolved after the spell resolves, so it can be done.

any help on clearing this up would be great.

thedarkness · Joined: 13 Jul 2006 Posts: 449

First of all, -4/-4 isn't damage, and even without split second that would kill something that regenerates, because as many times as you regenerate it, you will be regenerating an x/0. It's like reviving someone with a giant hole instead of a head, over and over.

Secondly, damage only uses the stack in combat. Everywhere else, the SOURCE uses the stack, but the damage just..happens. So if you can't do anything (regenerate) while the spell is on the stack, and the spell is on the stack until all parts have resolved, then the creature is dead before you can regenerate it.

I think that was simple enough. >.< It might be inaccurate in my attempt to simplify it.

GhostYou2 · Joined: 16 Aug 2006 Posts: 8

Sorry Sudden shock is the card i should have use in the E.g.

sc4rs · Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 389

First of all, you can't regenerate from Sudden Death ever, because a creature with 0 toughness is put into a graveyard from state based effects, and can't be regenerated. Regeneration only stops cards "destroyed" or dealt lethal damage.

And for cards like Molten Disaster and Sudden Shock, no you can't. People tend to confuse this because of combat damage. Combat damage is the only type of damage that separately goes "on the stack." When a spell dealing damage resolves, the damage is immediately dealt to that creature, and then state based effects check to see if that creature should be killed or not. If the creature will die from the damage, then the card asks, "Does this creature have a regeneration shield or not?" If the answer is no, then the creature dies. Because you can't play spells or abilities while the card with split second is on the stack, or while state based effects are being checked, unless you put a regenerate shield on the creature earlier in the turn, the creature will die before you have a chance to regenerate.

If it is your Molten Disaster, the best idea is to put a regeneration shield on the creature before you cast the spell, as split second will not interfere with regeneration if the answer to the "Does this creature have a regeneration shield?" is "yes." If your opponent is casting the spell, putting the regeneration shield on first probably won't work, as they will just use their split second spell in response, generally.

EDIT: Haha, while I was typing this the question was already answered.

GhostYou2 · Joined: 16 Aug 2006 Posts: 8

Thanks heaps
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kby · Joined: 03 Oct 2006 Posts: 126

a "Regeneration Shield" would allow the creature to regenerate, but has to be done before the Split Second spell is on the stack...

--creature activates 'regenerate', when it takes leathel dmg or is destroyed, it regenerates, shield fades--

Zoom · Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 80

Creatures die from damage as a state based effect. State based effects are a kind of effect that is checked for whenever any player would receive priority to play a spell. Some other state based effects are losing the game by being at less than 1 life, and creatures with toughness less than 1 dying.
Suppose an opponent Sudden Shocks your Drudge Skeleton and you haven't activated the Skeleton's regeneration ability this turn yet. You can't activate regeneration in response to the sudden shock while it's on the stack cause of split second. After the shock resolves the skeleton has lethal damage. Now, before you get priority, state based effects are checked, and the skeletons die before you can activate regeneration. Dead skeletons.
Suppose for some reason you have activated the skeleton's regeneration and it's just sitting there with a regen shield on it (regeneration effect hangs around until end of turn or until it prevents a creature death) Now if your opponent sudden shocks the skeleton it will live.

Magx · Joined: 07 Sep 2004 Posts: 332

I think Zoom summarize this perfectly and don't forget, your creature would be tapped !

Egnirys · Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 92

What if in response to your activation of regen shield the opponent casts Sudden Shock? Shock will resolve first and when it does, the damage will kill Skeletons right?

But then you don't need split second do you? Suppose you activate regen (in anticipation of sudden shock), they respond with a Helix. Helix resolves first so the creature dies before the regen resolves (assume you're now out of mana so cannot do another regen).

sgtpepper87 · Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 112

yeag but in your example with helix, they can just respond to the helix with paying the regeneration cost again, which would then resolve before the helix. they can't do that with sudden shock because of split second, so it's not kinda the same.