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Turbo dredge


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toguppy



Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:02 am    Post subject: Turbo dredge Reply with quote

// Lands
4 [TSB] Gemstone Mine
4 [DIS] Breeding Pool
4 [9E] Yavimaya Coast
1 [RAV] Swamp (2)
1 [RAV] Island (1)
1 [9E] Forest (4)
2 [FS] Dakmor Salvage

// Creatures
4 [PLC] Magus of the Bazaar
4 [TSP] Greenseeker
4 [GP] Drowned Rusalka
4 [FS] Narcomoeba
4 [RAV] Stinkweed Imp
1 [RAV] Flame-Kin Zealot
4 [FS] Street Wraith
4 [RAV] Golgari Grave-Troll
1 [9E] Mindslicer

// Spells
1 [TSP] Traitor's Clutch
2 [TSP] Think Twice
4 [TSP] Dread Return
4 [FS] Bridge from Below
2 [RAV] Life from the Loam

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [RAV] Ghosts of the Innocent
SB: 2 [RAV] Blazing Archon
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 [RAV] Darkblast




plain and simply this deck can easily deck itself if you want to giggle a little bit... Razz
the drowned rusalkas and greenseekers can get those dredge targets in grave, and also thin your deck a bit, while rusalka also dredges those cards back

think twice is perhaps something that only just dawned on me today while drinking some alchomahol Razz i was sick and tired of my draw cards ie. compulsive research or ANYTYHING going to graveyard after i start to dredge. now think twice effects the game as i can dredge her back on turn 3 allowing for more decking fun!!

basically the whole idea of this deck is to ramp all 4 bridges into the graveyard sac some creatures to dread return and bring back zealot. this usually gives you about 30ish power on the board presuming you only sacced 3 creatures ( which doesnt happen often, i hit for 90 on turn 3 one game)

some people may be thinking wtf are those ghosts of the innocent doing in your sb????
well its tech that i thought should be allowed to run rampant through the net Razz this card almos singlehandedly kills dragonstorm!!!
lol!!!
return him and now his hellkites only deal 2 damage each!! wich if you ask me is a good deal all in all. the good thing about them is that you can sack him when your going for your big hit.

quite often in this deck you can just reanimate a grave troll and also a flame kin in the same turn if they remove your bridges wich still allows for a killing hit.

mindslicer is only in there as something to use vs any control decks as you can quite easily get through their counters in 1 turn when they only have 4ish land out. allowing you to discard every1's hand and your plain and simply hands down going to win that.

theres a small land count in this deck because the deck can run without lands at all if it has to and preferably will only get 3 lands out max allthough it has the LftL's in main to get the lands back.

any ideas yourselves are more than appreciated.
i know that i havent lost to a deck except where my flamekin zealot was the last card in my deck and id been dredging for it madly.

ive tried the pacts in the deck and they dont work
negation pact ( you generally dont have 5 lands on the table)
green pact (if your searching for a troll this way your in trouble anyway)
the other pacts are plain crappy.


Last edited by toguppy on Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:29 am; edited 2 times in total
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thedarkness



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 581

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks absolutely hilarious. I won't test it, because I've basically got the same concept for vintage, and it DOES work. I might build it though, and make a couple changes that I'm too lazy to think over right now. Kudos on the original build. ^^-b
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Mirage



Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

your deck has no way to handle creatures, which leads me to believe it scoops to the yixid jailer or whatever it's called.

darkblast is suitable, eh?
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toguppy



Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks mirage for the pointer yeah jailer would actually hurt this deck alot.

i think i might try to fit darkblast in the sb somewhere for him.
i dont expect to see him played too much but still he is a threat.

i updated the sb for that. i dont expect to worry about it but still something that mightcrop up
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sc4rs



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 859

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why does everyone building a new dredge deck insist on skipping Llanowar Mentor? Confused

Mentor is WAY better than Drowned Rusalka or Fa'adiyah Seer or Thought Courier. It gets you tokens to sacrifice if you need creatures desperately and gives you extra mana as well as being a discard outlet. It should always been Magus, Mentor, and Greenseeker or Skeins, Mentor, and Greenseeker as discard outlets, IMO.

I don't quite understand the Flame-Kin Zealot as a 1x if it's so vital to your deck. Why not just play two so, as you say, you're not "dredging for it madly" if it's at the bottom of your deck?

The deck looks hilarious otherwise. Ghosts seems like a pretty neat idea. Good luck with it!
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Via



Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mentor didnt make it because Rusalka is basically "U: mill 5-6 yourself" in this deck. Thats why it is turbo dredge. And I think its actually pretty good.

But Yixlid Jailer, Leyline of the Void, early removal like Seal of Fire or simply sacking-self creatures like Mindlash Sliver and Rusalkas can wreck it easily.

I would remove Mindslicer (or move to side) and 2 Think Twice, and add one more basic land (Island) and 2 Golgari Thug for more consistency. Thug is also interesting synergy with Narcomoeba.

Blazing Archon in side is not necessary. Too slow against aggro. And Ghosts od Innocent can be sided in similar way, because the time u get archon in play opponent can often finish u with burn. Ghosts can delay both burn and cretures.
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Oggrane



Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject: How bout this Reply with quote

Your list is fairly original but it seems too janky.

Here's a more consolidated one

// Land (17)
4 [TSB] Island
4 [DIS] Breeding Pool
1 [9E] Yavimaya Coast
3 [RAV] Watery Grave
2 [FS] Dakmor Salvage
3 [FS] Horizon Canopy

// Creatures (30)
4 [PLC] Magus of the Bazaar
4 [FS] Llanowar Mentor
4 [GP] Drowned Rusalka
4 [FS] Narcomoeba
4 [RAV] Stinkweed Imp
2 [RAV] Flame-Kin Zealot
2 [TSP] Bogardan Hellkite
4 [RAV] Golgari Grave-Troll
4 [9TH] Thought Courier
2 [FS] Street Wraith

// Spells (13)
4 [TSP] Dread Return
4 [FS] Bridge from Below
2 [RAV] Darkblast
3 [GP] Leyline of the Void

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [RAV] Golgari Thug
SB: 2 [RAV] Pact of Negation
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [FS] Nix
SB: 2 [RAV] Darkblast


Edited.


Last edited by Oggrane on Wed May 02, 2007 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Taoofss



Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 321

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4x bridge is pretty dumb
not playing hoirzon canopy is pretty dumb
playing think twice over complusive research is also pretty dumb.
not playing enough lands to support a hard cast dredge return is pretty dumb.
not playing a good reliable win condition like hellkite is pretty dumb.
playing 4x leyline of the void main board is the dumbest thing ever suggested. explain how it is the key in agro match ups.
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Duff2005



Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oggrane, I'm glad you finally listen to my suggestion Very Happy Mentor is way too good and BUG is the way to go, my list is more on the reanimator side. It's pretty consistent but I really need to race dragonstorm. The deck is a blast to play pack those bridges while they are cheap!

NARCO-DREDGE (Under the bridge)

Land (21)
4 Gemstone mine
2 Yavimaya Coast
2 llanowar wastes
1 underground river
4 Watery Grave
4 Breeding pool
4 overgrown tomb

4 Magus of the Bazaar
4 Llanowar Mentor
2 Though courrier
4 Narcomoeba
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari thug
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
3 Hellkite
2 Akroma
4 Dread Return
4 Bridge from Below

Of course Jailer is a pain but no deck is perfect I have receive only WOW and SICK from my opponent on the league try it but the name is... NARCO-DREDGE !!!! by me Wink
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Via



Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you guys should make make comments on posted deck, instead of posting your lists

and someone above is pretty dumb Very Happy
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sc4rs



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 859

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wkdclwn89 wrote:
Greenseeker and Mentor are actually counter productive to the deck, why? Because to use them you need to activate them turn2, which is the only turn you can drop a Magus safely. You are better off running a turn 1 discard outlet, or dropping a rusalka.


Greenseeker and Mentor both ARE turn 1 discard outlets. Read cards, please.

And I think that the card draw off of Drowned Rusalka is not as necessary as a repeatable discard outlet. There's nothing worse than being stuck with one or two Bridge from Belows in your opening hand with no way to get them into your graveyard because you used the Rusalka to pitch a dredge guy.
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toguppy



Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok in regards to the pitch outlets....

rusalka provides you with milling, and sacrificing, with a bridge in the graveyard(presuming only 1 at the time) you can get 2 dredes for 2 mana .... the mana base is actually more configured to be able to pay the blue mana in order to do this.
in regards to green seeker over mentor: i personally only run greenseeker as a tutor for 3 lands in the deck which allow you to a) cast imp if you have to & b) activate svothgos(my actual builds are always slightly dif to the ones i post Razz) & c) thin my deck to a small degree. I was considering running mentor in order to sac the tokens to rusalka but the aformentioned reasons still stand.

In regards to think twice: once a compulsive research is dredged into the GY it is dead.... this is not. not only is this not a dead card BUT this is also instant speed allowing you to return something to your hand if they crypt. this is well thought out so if you see anything bad about that please tell me.....

in regards to mindslicer : the mindslicer is only in there for 2 reasons: as aback up flamekin. if flamekin is extirpated or rfg somehow then getting 30 tokens on the board and making us both discard our hands will usually win the game still.

in regards to bridge from below: WTF!!! you dont realise that in 1 turn 4 or 5 at the latest presuming you do get SOME draw, a magus preferably or ANYTHING at all your deck will be reduced to only a few cards. this means that 3 or 4 bridges will almost certainly be in the graveyard and you want all bridges to be there in order for you to go off and get 20ish hasty 3/3's running at the opponent.

SC4RS if you have 2 or 3 bridge from below in your opening hand then id presume that there were some VERY good cards in that hand aswell in order for you to keep it... learn to mulligan aggressively with this deck. You only really need a dredge outlet and a discarder and 1 or 2 lands.

in regards to needing extra dredge... the deck doesnt need it refer to the above statement of mulliganing aggressively. the only situation where i will keep a hand without a dredger is where i have a magus or 2 in hand and i know my opponent doesnt have disruption.

@ DUFF2005
try ghosts of the innocent in sb vs dragonstorm you can quite easily get one into play with dread returns before they can go off. this usually stops them all together as even when they go off they have to either devote 3 dragons to just killing the ghost or they can only deal you 14 damage maximum and the longer they hold onto their hand in order to storm for above 4 the better chance they will actually draw a dragon.

@ TAOOFSS
refer to bridge statement.....
horizon canopy doesnt fit into the mana base....
think twice allows you to cast even after in yard and the deck does have to mulligan sometimes meaning that these WILL recoup the card advantage that compulsive research will not. unless you want to have 4 cards in your hand devoted to JUST casting this...(3 lands and compulsive research)
there is a very good win condition and that is the bridges.... they produce ALOT of creatures and usually hit over the head on the same turn with the flamekin.
in regards to maindeck leylines.... what he said its a dumb thing to do in most matchups it wont do anything at all, and is a wasted 4 slot. very good in the mirror but they should also have em in their sb meaning that its any1's game after that.

@ oggrane
the land base in that deck is not going to provide me with turn 1 green if i need it and the only way to produce black is with 5 lands.... my land base has a tutorable target. gemstone mines wich produce both green AND black, and 2 dakmor salvage wich im personally thinking of changing for something else as more times than not your only playing it tapped.
your sb and main deck seem very mirror match orientated. this may just be bad(in my experience) for other matchups... especially when the opponent has leylines in game 2 and 3 aswell..
believe me when i say this.... pact is horrible in the deck. you want something that will discard or something that will draw. there is NOTHING that the pacts bring to the deck. you certainly wont draw them after you start dredging and an opening hand with them in there means a dead card in hand while your trying to get your engine running.
i dont mind the inclusion of nix in sb as hate vs crypt or even in the mirror(but this mirror game is usually dominated just with the leylines in game 2 & 3 and generally wont have very much dredging going on so a flashbacked dread return wont generally happen .)
thought courier was a thought** get it??? lol j/k but just the same with my other outlets he dies... atleast ruslalka gets around the killing and discards at instant speed. the street wraiths are perfect machines in the mirror.
@ VIA
if blazing archon is too slow vs agro... then why can u reanimate him possibly on turn 2, or 3, or 4? if he is too slow then why does he singlehandedly stop their attacks and swing for the win as a flyer with 5 power?? if the opponent is heavy burn then by all means bring in ghosts but your forgetting that most of that burn will HAVE to be pointed at your discard outlets wich completely destroys any clock they would have had on you with no creatures ont eh board in the first couple of turns.
as i said mindslicer provides you with another way to ensure your finisher sacing him and have 30 tokens on the board will ensure a win in the next couple of turns at the latest. swinging with tokens and flamekin will not ensure it.
yes there are things that will hurt this deck or slow it down.... the same as ANY other deck in the format. there is no ravager in type 2....
@wkdclwn89
??????????? this is a mutation from my build a while ago using normal dredge
// Lands
2 [9E] Swamp (4)
5 [RAV] Forest (3)
1 [FS] Horizon Canopy
1 [RAV] Mountain (4)
1 [GP] Skarrg, the Rage Pits
3 [RAV] Golgari Rot Farm
4 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
2 [TSB] Gemstone Mine
2 [RAV] Svogthos, the Restless Tomb

// Creatures
4 [RAV] Stinkweed Imp
4 [RAV] Golgari Grave-Troll
2 [FS] Street Wraith
4 [TSP] Bogardan Hellkite
4 [FS] Narcomoeba
4 [FS] Llanowar Mentor
4 [TSP] Greenseeker
3 [PLC] Fa'adiyah Seer

// Spells
4 [TSP] Dread Return
2 [RAV] Life from the Loam
2 [FS] Bridge from Below
1 [TSP] Traitor's Clutch
1 [RAV] Nightmare Void

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [RAV] Nightmare Void
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 [RAV] Ghosts of the Innocent
SB: 2 [RAV] Blazing Archon
SB: 2 [9E] Mindslicer
SB: 3 [FS] Quagnoth
i posted the deck up a little while ago for ideas and since then have experimented with the both cyclers and other numerous cards. deciding that the deck can be alot more explosive if i just go for the bridge win.
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Taoofss



Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 321

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this deck does not need green.

compulsive, glimpse, magus are entirely enough. hellkite is the better win condition, direct damage>combat damage.

compulsive>think twice becuase it allows you to chuck the cards in your hand.

im very tempted to replace compulsive with the card that lets you draw 2 and discard 4, but testing right now shows that compulsive works fine.

cutting it to two colors allows you to support canopy. you run canopy the same reason you run streetwraith, which im not 100 percent sure is better than remand.

3-4 gemstone caverns.
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Reich



Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why doesn't anyone like delerium skeins?
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Taoofss



Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 321

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

compulsive>skeins, you dont need hand disruption. u need to goo off turn 3-4. u do need cards in the grave and in your hand.
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