Question about kavu predator and lightning helix

Kingpanda28 · Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Posts: 9

Hey everyone, I just have a quick question concerning kavu predator and lightning helix. If I have a kavu predator in play and my opponent attempts to helix it, will my predator die or will it live? I have always been a little fuzzy on state based effects as it took me a while to understand that if there are 3 sorceries in a graveyard and magnivore gets volcanic hammered he will live. I guess what I am not truly understanding is the text on lightning helix, i.e. does the damage and life gain happen at the same time or not? Thanks in advance for your help.

kendiggy · Joined: 30 Nov 2004 Posts: 366 Location: not here

It will die, assuming it is a 3/3 or less. Reason is because Kavu Predator says "whenever an opponent gains life, put that many +1/+1 counters on it." The word "whenever" makes it a triggered ability which dosn't go on the stack until after lightning helix resolves, at which point all state-based effects are checked before anything else can happen. The game sees a 2/2 creature with 3 damage on it and kills it. The ability will still go on the stack, but will fail to resolve because the Kavu is no longer in play.

toguppy · Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 296

ronjeremyjr · Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 40

Actually, he's right, the Kavu dies. Magnivore operates differently from the Kavu. The counters aren't automagically put on the Kavu, the triggered ability has to resolve. The Magnivore's power and toughness are constantly changing based on the number of sorcery spells in the graveyard. The two effects are different, one's called triggered, the other's continuous, the difference is quite important. Oh, and I passed the test and never heard from anyone again, does this mean I'm rejected?

acartizle · Joined: 26 Feb 2006 Posts: 52

Unfortunately toguppy, reading the rules is also important:

408.1f
Triggered abilities can trigger at any time, including during the playing or resolution of a spell or another ability. However, nothing actually happens at the time the abilities trigger. Each time a player would receive priority, each ability that has triggered is put on the stack (if it hasn’t already been put on the stack). Then the player gets priority and may play spells or abilities. (See rule 410, “Handling Triggered Abilities.”)

so the ability triggers inside of the resolution of the spell (but does nothing). Then the spell is put into the graveyard, kavu dies and THEN the ability goes on the stack and since there's no more kavu, it fails to do anything

Erebus- · Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 93

Ya toguppy is very wrong. You read the card and know the rules of SBE's and triggered abilities.

kfcman · Joined: 16 Sep 2006 Posts: 583

mmhmm
toguppy just got owned

djww19 · Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Posts: 396

Goofy · Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 19

-1. Kavu in play

0. Play Lightning Helix targetting Kavu

1. LH on the stack

2. LH resolves, Kavu takes 3 damage, Opponent gains 3 life

3. State-based effects are checked
3a. Kavu dies
3b. Kavu's ability triggers and goes on the stack (this part is usually ignored because of the following)

4. Kavu's ability does nothing because the object it modifies is no longer around to be affected

toguppy · Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 296

*BOW*

too true. ouch.

toguppy · Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 296

*BOW*

too true. ouch.