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UW Fish Revived


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papasmurf



Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:41 am    Post subject: UW Fish Revived Reply with quote

This board is for a remaking w/PC of UW Fish
First the list (which is obviously horrible)
SO HELP!!

// Lands
4 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
4 [9E] Adarkar Wastes
5 [TSP] Plains (1)
9 [TSP] Island (1)

// Creatures
4 [TSP] Looter il-Kor
4 [TSB] Icatian Javelineers
4 [DIS] Azorius Herald
4 [PLC] Riptide Pilferer

// Spells
4 [TSB] Psionic Blast
4 [9E] Mana Leak
4 [RAV] Remand
4 [TSP] Griffin Guide
4 [PLC] Piracy Charm
2 [9E] Loxodon Warhammer

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [DIS] Condemn
SB: 4 [GP] Repeal
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [TSP] Temporal Isolation

The deck needs
1) A faster win clock. I'm open to an suggesstions

2) A better SB for PC I've just thrown one together for beating a little bit of aggro.

3) More Creatures, but what to take out of the spells

4) Some includes could be
Serra Avenger, Spell Snare, Mana Tithe, (Really hope to fit it in) venarian glimmer, some morphs, (Seer, willbender?)
Serrated arrows.

Well if you are inclined to help this deck Please do so.
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FiReBLT



Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Faster Clock:
Savannah Lions
Soltari Priest
Serra Avenger (debatable)

I would SB the herald for burn/fast aggro as the 4 life seems to be the most important thing on this card, and put in Serra Avenger or Soltari Priest. Also, the Icatian Javlineers seems kind of slow, as this deck can clear/counter opposing creatures without too much difficulty. I would remove them, and add Savannah Lions.


Better SB:
Circle Of Protection: Red
Trickbind
Honourable Passage


Also, you are right, Spell Snare and Mana Tithe are amazingly good in aggro decks.
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FiReBLT



Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try This

// Lands
5 [IN] Island (3)
4 [CHK] Plains (1)
4 [TSB] Gemstone Mine
4 [5E] Adarkar Wastes
4 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain

// Creatures
4 [TSP] Serra Avenger
4 [TSB] Voidmage Prodigy
4 [TSP] Looter il-Kor
4 [9E] Savannah Lions

// Spells
3 [PLC] Wistful Thinking
4 [TSB] Unstable Mutation
4 [GP] Repeal
4 [U] Psionic Blast
4 [RAV] Remand
4 [PLC] Mana Tithe

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [DIS] Azorius Herald
SB: 4 [5E] Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 4 [TSP] Trickbind
SB: 3 [TSP] Griffin Guide


Still a bit clunky, but better
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papasmurf



Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mana tithes are working very nicely, and serra avenger was another nice induction, So without more explanations, here's the new list.


// Lands
4 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
4 [9E] Adarkar Wastes
7 [TSP] Plains (1)
7 [TSP] Island (1)

// Creatures
4 [TSP] Looter il-Kor
4 [9E] Savannah Lions
4 [TSP] Serra Avenger
2 [TSB] Soltari Priest
4 [TSP] Knight of the Holy Nimbus

// Spells
4 [TSB] Psionic Blast
4 [RAV] Remand
4 [PLC] Mana Tithe
4 [GP] Repeal
4 [9E] Vulshok Morningstar

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [DIS] Condemn
SB: 4 [DIS] Azorius Herald
SB: 3 [TSP] Griffin Guide
SB: 4 [PLC] Riptide Pilferer


As you can see Volshock Morningstar is my choice for creature pump. It has been decent in my games.

As for the SB it is 8 cards for aggro and 7 for control and azoriuos herald is very 2 dimentional, If you have any comments, suggestions, or questions feel free to reply.

Also suggestions for splashes or differnet color with blue will be taken into consideration.


Help us make fish in standard be good.
Thanks
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FiReBLT



Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a tad worried about the morningstar, as the 2 drops are already really crowded

I think this deck needs to put more in the 3 drop, like Spiketail Drake or Loxodon Warhammer
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theTJtrooper



Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no jitte no weenie deck
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Apos



Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 757

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jitte sux no good deck needs jitte !
if a deck is only viable because of jitte it sux anyway!
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theTJtrooper



Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
i really dont think fish is viable in t2. Fish requires 2 thing: awesome wheenies and effective undercost control elements.


I'm almost sure he was reffering to jitte :/
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Spartan-420



Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my list of UW Fish, maybe a little sketchy, but meh...

UW Fish
7 Plains
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Island
3 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Spiketail Drakeling
4 Psionic Blast
4 Serra Avenger
4 Soltari Priest
4 Remand
4 Looter il-Kor
4 Savannah Lions
4 Mana Tithe
3 Loxodon Warhammer
3 Repeal
SB: 4 Azorius Herald
SB: 3 Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Vesuvan Shapeshifter
SB: 2 Paladin en-Vec
SB: 2 Trickbind

You are going to need the Flagstones against any kind of LD deck, whether it be aggro or control, regardless...I was thinking about adding Quicksand and/or Ghost Quarter, but I tested it being way too slow, but Quicksand did help out a lot! So far I'm 8-6 with the deck, I was mostly running into MGA and Rakdos Aggro, didn't see much Snow Red Aggro, only once... that's why CoP: Red is in there, helped out with Rakdos Aggro... Anyways, there's my 2 cents worth... test away!
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PsyK



Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spiketail drakeling seems really important to me and i do like unstable mutation in a deck with remand and mana tithe to protect the enchanted creature until it's done the deed (a turn 3 mutation on a looter with one of those 2 counters in hand could win you the game easily).

Also if you find in practice you're not hitting ww easily on turn 2 for a priest you could give the azorious first wing a try. It can't be hit by fettars or isolation if that's important to you.
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papasmurf



Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like all the good thoughts coming in.

As for azorious guildmage, what activated things would youlike to stop?

I also don't like pride of the clouds because it recquires a whole deck built round it win which most of the creatures are not optimal.

I guess Spiketail Drakeling could put the brakes no an opponent, so I'll have to try it.

As I've suggested Unstable Mutation has not been very good in my testing. I also don't think Loxodon warhammer is very good, I'm saying this blindly, because of its mana cost(s).

I think I will stay with remand and Azorious Fisrt-Wing is far worse than KotHN and soltari Priest bucause it has less evation and resiliency than the other two.

Lastly, The "Jitte" people need to realize that boros, gruul, MBA, Zoo, MGA, and GW beats have all made it without jitte. So your ranting is ridiculous and not helpful.

It's your chance to smash my arguements to the ground. I can see this deck is very viable and is receiving great (constructive) feedback. Keep it Up and Thanks.
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mossivo1986



Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:29 am    Post subject: U/W Fish: Reply with quote

IS STILL DEAD. That said, and heres why:

Scimic beats has maindeck answers to this deck.

Dranlu simply either counters or deserts away your threats.

Borros burns your creatures in response.

Dragonstorm only looses to your swift silence "IF" you decide to run it sb.

U/W control, beats u up via pegasus tokens. And keep in mind they have the same avaliblity u do, except they run cards like condemn WOG, Faiths, ect.

Well I can't think of any other TRULY tier one decks, but thats basicly it. Maybe vore or g/r beats, but only vore maindeck has ur deck got a chance. and alot of d storm players are just siding out to vore now from what i've seen.

Oh and this deck absolutely DIES to wildfire. and there is no question if they don't see the mana base to six, they either didn't draw like the deck was supposed to, or you got something absolutely spectacular.

Plus the removal right now in the current standards insane. With split second on the rise, and other things that are just wrecking face. U/W Fish is just out of the question at this point.

Yes you have all the weapons borros does "except amazing burn." So your playing defense pretty much the whole game or trading blows which is horrible for you. Or you just die because borros IS the deck to beat.

Personally I think this deck is funny. I wanted to play it at my regionals, but I decided to play u/r Tron via wildfire asswholes all day. Placed second and it was a solid deck.

I don't know how this deck does against Saffi, soul warden, crypt champion combo, but I imagine that deck just got tons better because of extripate and imp's mischief. We'll see.

BTW Imp's mischief "wrecking control matchups since before the pre-release."

Best suggestion, try u/g beats but run u/r beats with rift/cloudskate/combos, to get around serious control decks. Suspend does beat control IF played early enough.
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mossivo1986



Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:29 am    Post subject: U/W Fish: Reply with quote

IS STILL DEAD. That said, and heres why:

Scimic beats has maindeck answers to this deck.

Dranlu simply either counters or deserts away your threats.

Borros burns your creatures in response.

Dragonstorm only looses to your swift silence "IF" you decide to run it sb.

U/W control, beats u up via pegasus tokens. And keep in mind they have the same avaliblity u do, except they run cards like condemn WOG, Faiths, ect.

Well I can't think of any other TRULY tier one decks, but thats basicly it. Maybe vore or g/r beats, but only vore maindeck has ur deck got a chance. and alot of d storm players are just siding out to vore now from what i've seen.

Oh and this deck absolutely DIES to wildfire. and there is no question if they don't see the mana base to six, they either didn't draw like the deck was supposed to, or you got something absolutely spectacular.

Plus the removal right now in the current standards insane. With split second on the rise, and other things that are just wrecking face. U/W Fish is just out of the question at this point.

Yes you have all the weapons borros does "except amazing burn." So your playing defense pretty much the whole game or trading blows which is horrible for you. Or you just die because borros IS the deck to beat.

Personally I think this deck is funny. I wanted to play it at my regionals, but I decided to play u/r Tron via wildfire asswholes all day. Placed second and it was a solid deck.

I don't know how this deck does against Saffi, soul warden, crypt champion combo, but I imagine that deck just got tons better because of extripate and imp's mischief. We'll see.

BTW Imp's mischief "wrecking control matchups since before the pre-release."

Best suggestion, try u/g beats but run u/r beats with rift/cloudskate/combos, to get around serious control decks. Suspend does beat control IF played early enough.
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papasmurf



Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never even went through the match ups, and I never claimed This deck had so many good or bad matchups, but from playing this deck, which you have not,

I do know that UG Scryb and force is a hard matchup.

against Dralnu and UW control, you wait until turn 3 and if you have mana tithe you can play a threat that turn, If they have a desert then on turn 4 if they tapped it, you can do likeeise with a 2 drop and remand back up or just 2 2 drops.

Once again against boros, we play the same creatures, and looter kills soltari priest, psionic blast and char are the same cards as well as we have mana tithe which is a house once again.

against Dragonstorm, Remand and rpeal are enough to keep their blooms unavailable, Plus you have a decent clock and spiketail drakeling on turn 3 is a great play. And as far as I've seen, DStorm has not been very popular.

As for other decks that could beat this deck, wildfire cost 6 mana and is countered easily unless they have a nuts draw.

Fish is an aggro control deck, and thus plays control against most aggro decks and aggro against control, always having an "in between" against random decks and combo, hence the archtype of Aggro-Control. O and the list I'm using now.
// Lands
4 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
4 [9E] Adarkar Wastes
5 [TSP] Plains (1)
5 [TSP] Island (1)
4 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair

// Creatures
4 [TSP] Looter il-Kor
4 [9E] Savannah Lions
3 [TSP] Serra Avenger
4 [TSP] Knight of the Holy Nimbus
4 [TSP] Spiketail Drakeling

// Spells
4 [TSB] Psionic Blast
4 [RAV] Remand
4 [PLC] Mana Tithe
4 [GP] Repeal
3 [TSP] Griffin Guide

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [DIS] Condemn
SB: 4 [DIS] Azorius Herald
SB: 4 [PLC] Riptide Pilferer
SB: 3 [PLC] Pongify


I've seen Griffin guide have the most impact on the board in my games, as well as spiketail drakeling slowing the opponent down. I haven't had too many games with the sideboard, but I need to try things, so pongify is going to spice things up. Please proceed to smash my comments into the ground. Thanks.
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