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Rakdos- aggro control


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Standard (T2) Decks
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zebo_88



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 123
Location: Phyrexia

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice but i wonder why u didnt put confidant that would be the perfect engine...and i don't really like Sulfur elemental in main, but i agree that sometimes it can be devastating. How does it work vs control?
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flynnT



Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

an aggro deck playing black WITHOUT dark confidant is bad. period. this guy is a staple, an absolute must-play. don't care about the life loss, YOU're the aggro deck!

saying that bob won't be in play long vs control and therefore shouldnt be played also is ridiculous. you want to play cards that stress your opponent, so bob is the man of choice here.

if you really really want lifegain, play loxodon warhammer. it's nice on blood knight.

also, play shadow guildmage (maybe over rusalka). 1cc pingers = good, even in constructed. kills lions, elves, birds and priests.


sudden shock: "He also has this cool trick that you block a Teferi ( or any creature with 4 toughness ) and you put first strike damage on the stack and then sudden shock there guy and they can do anything."

hahaha. ever read teferi's rext box? Smile
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Rawrer



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put Sulfur Elemental sideboard, cos boros isn't played that much, and put in demonfire, cos it doesnt only work vs counter decks, but vs any deck.
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yavin1



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 143

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rawrer wrote:
Put Sulfur Elemental sideboard, cos boros isn't played that much, and put in demonfire, cos it doesnt only work vs counter decks, but vs any deck.


boros is still played and solid. CONFIDANT IS A MUST!!!!! 1/3 of the time you will lose no life, he has a body to attack with (and you can kill him) and losing two life isn't the end of the world. IF your facing control where ure spells get contered, you'll rely on top decking, but with confidant you do not. IT is too good not to run. If your going to die by it, kill it or attack with it, and then the person is forced to take 2 dmg and rely on luck to kill you. Demonfire>sudden death also. And shadow GM is a must. See how lydzola works out also cause she helps you sac and deal dmg and draw, which is always good.
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poopascoopa



Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You NEED to play Dark Confidant. Also, cut out Sudden Shock for Volcanic Hammer, Sudden Death for Cruel Edict and Sedge Sliver for Demonfire.

Then it might be good.
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mossivo1986



Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, since u hate bob soo much because people who havent played the deck have told u to play him. Try this. BOB is Xtra good against every tier one choice in standard right now. He's especially good against those pesky black meta killer decks that like to play discard. Whats even better is that since glair has basicly rotated and wildfire is only run in vore, cards like bob stay in play. Think about it like this.

Every deck that doesnt run him tries to get rid of him immediately: Reason? Yes,

You drop bob by turn 2 k?

turn three 1 more then opponents
turn four 2 more then opponents
turn five 3 more then opponents.
so where decks are either speed drawing against u, u are speed drawing against them, and ur spells are all burn so they have to have an answer and electrolize simply isnt run in tier one standard right now.

Dranlu has desert, and the suddent death, maybe repeal if they feel the need. Thats it.

So u draw and draw and draw. BTW where is gemstone caverns, YES caverns. Caverns is a limited mox, and in an enviornment where control pretty much rules standard right now. They do NOT want u getting off quickly/ at all.

Giant soli is a great idea main.
Blood knight, maybe I dunno but he looks phenominal.
Demonfire isn't necc for the deck. It'll win u matches, BUT only if u get to late game. Rift bolts better for u. The same reason its great for borros. for all intensive purposes free burn, if they drop teferi, no biggy. u run char for a reason.

BTW Sulfur elemental is not as good a shadowmage. Shadowmage WINS matchups. SUlfur elemental is OK against one to two matchups. SB if necc.

IF ur honestly worried about green beats, run pyroclasm. They have to waste a valuable pump spell and that ain't good for them.

Hitt/Run IS good, but only for rakdos control. Same goes for damnation.

WHERE IN THE HELL is Cryoclasm in your side. It's phenominal against almost any matchup. LD and burn HELLO?

Stone rain might cause some havic in the dranlu matchup as well. Get rid of the pump land and it makes for a totally different matchup, check that, run ghost quarter. And then extripate the fucker out of the game. Enough of those slow ass matches. "Joking"

u/w control is a problem for u. Although not tier one. It simply stomps all over ur face. This is why u need speed burn, and maybe alittle hand disruption, try running discard in ur sb. But more then four. Maybe switch out to r/b dicard

God knows I could only hate on one more discard deck, yuck.

Overall, there are three cards that simply beat on u.

Loxodon hierarch = sudden death, also = sb
3/3 elephants.
ANything that gets to lategame against u and has any sort of cotrol and is at more then 10 life. Try running one urza factory. It's cute, it's fun, it really messes up the right situations. Sb in sudden shock. IT totally screws with control. They hate it.


OVERALL: out of ten this deck is a seven and a half.

U have the god draws to keep it alive like most standard decks, but inless ur playing the right matchups u totally get hosed because of jank decks right now. There are thrty some odd tier one, two, and three decks that do too many things. Try finding this one. Trading Loams.

When I saw this deck I was like WAAHHHH? and it's soo amazingly fast for a three color deck it'll shit ur pants. and it absolutely demolishes decks that run control. Aggro it has a hard matchup with but only for about two turns usually turn three to four is horrible inless they pull hierarch.

So honestly Rakdos is GOOD, but tech it out and keep the shit secret. Because when u stomp a T2 tourney and it's printed everywhere, you'll be the genious who sat there and watched, not the guy who got copied from the pro tour proff who just won 16k off of ur deck ideas.

OOps. "look for me this season."

-Joel Ferris
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

instead of Fortune Thief, maybe Dunerider outlaw ?
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:09 pm    Post subject: this deck is the SHIT Reply with quote

OMFG

I LOVE this deck .. I just played about 5 games with it and win 4 because I lost the burn race with another aggro deck, this deck obvioiusly SQUASH control ( with 3 4x split second cards ) they can't do shit, Boros is totally owned because of Sulfur elemental and Blood Knight ...


The only problem I see with this deck is playing vs aggro that runs burn spells . . . when you lose the race

and I think the debate in this deck is "should I be running Shadow Guildmage or Seal of fire". I know that this are two cards that are hard to compared but sometimes you have to do it. and I think it depends a lot on the metagame and personnal choice too. I think with BoB (wich by the way, does not make a good difference in the deck... on the 5 games, I got it in ONE game (2 out of 3 wich I get on both or 3 games) and I won ALL except one (without BoB)
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Ffancrzy
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poopascoopa wrote:
You NEED to play Dark Confidant. Also, cut out Sudden Shock for Volcanic Hammer, Sudden Death for Cruel Edict and Sedge Sliver for Demonfire.

Then it might be good.


I agree maybe w/ vol hammer over sudden shock (but SB it)

but Cruel edict over sudden death? i dont agree w/ that
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crewrunnin wrote:
ur a donk max, and why should it take so much convincing to run confidant. you are just a bad player if your not wanting to run him in black aggro. he could easily be one of, if not the best creature that type 2 has seen in years. any deck that doesnt run confidant, remand, or wrath is going to flop in any t-2 metagame.


Look.. did you play the deck ? I m not saying "don't run " it. I m saying that the deck is SO good (especially against conrol) that it don't even need confident. The reason is simple. Did you see the number of Split Second Cards in this deck ? ( 12 -> 4x Sudden Shock, 4x Sudden Death and 4x Sulfur Elemental). Control can't do shit (and ESPECIALLY + if you have a confidant in play).

and for the rest of your paragraph : "any deck that doesnt run confidant, remand, or wrath is going to flop in any t-2 metagame". I totallly disagree... I think there is ALWAYS a way to get around ANY card in ANY format... you just have to THINK... and not in one way the way you said. That proves that you are just stubborn and thinks there is only 3 good cards in T2, and that s so untrue.

ps : if you could read , you could see that my name is Magx not Max
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sc4rs



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 859

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Did you see the number of Split Second Cards in this deck ? ( 12 -> 4x Sudden Shock, 4x Sudden Death and 4x Sulfur Elemental). Control can't do shit


Sudden Shock, Sudden Death, and Sulfur Elemental are in no way, shape, or form the reason this deck is good against control. Not even by a long shot. There is no pure counterspell deck in the format (not even Dralnu du Louvre, though it's close), and even if they can't counter Sulfur Elemental, the other two they don't NEED to counter. How in the world is two damage or targeted removal going to swing the game? Frankly, it isn't. Removing Dralnu or Teferi might be a good trick, but if you haven't killed them by then, the game is probably in their favor.

The reason any deck like this has a good matchup against control is because you have good post-Wrath/Damnation drops. Most deck do this with a retardedly large number of burn spells and Giant Solifuge. (obv. MGA and non-red decks have to figure out a different way to survive after a Wrath, which is why Timbermare and Groundbreaker are so helpful)

This deck, on the other hand, relies too heavily on creature-based removal (Sudden Death = control card, not agro card. You can't point a Sudden Death at their face) and light burn (Seal of Fire over Rift Bolt? Sudden Shock when Martyrtron is clearly on the way out anyway?) and, frankly, underwhelming creatures. Sulfur Elemental is a 3 mana 3/2 against any deck that is not Boros. If it's only very good against one deck (maybe two, if you count Dralnu, though they'll almost always have some way to deal with it...Last Gasp, anyone?) it should stay on the sideboard.

Dark Confidant is one of the best pre- and post- Wrath/Damnation plays in the format. He's a bear (dealing the exact same amount of damage as Blood Knight and Rakdos Guildmage) and he fetches you more burn spells (which in the long run ends up meaning you can out-burn your opponent, even if you take damage). The card advantage is also CRUCIAL against control decks. Getting to draw two cards off of him before your opponent clears the board is extremely important.

Also note that since every single one of your creatures and spells is red, Circle of Protection: Red utterly destroys your deck, which is why Satanic Sligh ended up being phased out in favor of Gruul and now Boros, which can get more damage in with non-Red sources. You don't even have Demonfire to get around it.

Not to mention that aside from Sedge Sliver, every one of your creatures dies to a Call of the Herd token, or any other creature with 3 toughness and 2 or more power. I hear those are generally popular. What happens when a Spectral Force hits the board? On turn 3?

Speaking of "on turn 3," that's only one turn away from the magic turn when Dragonstorm is supposed to go off. You have nothing on board to beat it, and you don't really have enough burn to race it.

Your analysis of this deck focuses too much on the "Look it beats Boros and counterspells!" and not enough on the "Dragonstorm, green-based agro, and decks with Wrath and COP: Red sideboard" that make up a decent part of the metagame.
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the first part of your argument, it is absolutely completely errounous. The fact that they absolutely can't do anything in response , and that it enters play resolves and you can actually hit them or remove something important (like play Sudden Death on Tefeiri). I think that the important thing against control is to at least hit them at each time you attack.

The thing about having a good "post Wrath/Damnation" drops is the ability of a player of not putting all his eggs in the same basket. I could easily put all my spells and have no cards in hand (ok, kind of hard if you have Confidant in play) and I would probably lose all the games. Pre and post Wrath/Damnation are as well important

We all agree that Dark Confidant is one of the best creatures ever made but we can't say " THE better creature" . There is no such thing. All have their advantages and disavantages. (the obviously one being only 1 defense and can be the target of spells or abilities)

For the thing about Call of the herd = I got 4x Char and 4x Sudden Death and Slivers -> I think I can handle that (plus I put Damnation in sideboard)

For the thing about Circle Protection : Red, I think you are right, but I didn't encouter it yet.. but in case, I thought of putting some white for disenchant... but that could be hard to though.

And I got also to agree for the deck against Dragonstorm that absolutely rapes me IF played correctly .. I never saw someone played it correctly and either they try to do Ritual Flame in answer of a Ritual Flame so they dont' get all the mana they could and should or either they can't count to 9, so beware of Dragonstrom players, they are noob or people that can't count. And I ll try to find a solution (extirpate ? already in the side).

My analysisis not "look the deck beats whatever beacause of that". I am just considering that as a plus ( and a freaking good one since control runs rampant everywhere). My analyise is more like : "well, look at this deck, it's a good one , that beats a lot of deck and I like it."

No deck is perfect nor player or analysis. Oh and try the deck first, thing you didn't obviously did.
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engrishskill wrote:
Annnnnd...Sc4rs brings a bunch of people that are playing "cas t2 w/PC testing" in MiRC back to earth. Thank god. He actually put alot more tact and effort into that than I would have.


look at the picture under is name.. you call that tact ? and btw, I m not mirc and saying "casual T2 with PC testing". And btw, what is wrong with that ? Did you know that most of players are actually playing FOR FUN ? and they can test PC too.. test is not just for people that thinks they are the best players in the world because they have 1700 + rating.
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must say that even though the deck don'T "need" BoB, he is really useful in a lot of situations (obviously REALLY efficient against control)

Why people can't understand that Split Second is the BEST ABILITY EVER PRINTED ? Krosan Grip kills Jitte and you can'T do anything even activate Jitte's ability (or any other artifact) and it just coste ONE MORE COLORLESS than Naturalize ... Sudden Death kill Teferi, elephant token, everything with a defense of 4... wow, and they can'T do shit about it... Stonewood invocation -> you decliare 0 blockers ? yes, damage goes to te stack and ...STONEWOOD INVOCATION, you were at 9, my creature is a 5/5 and I pump it to 4 and you can't do shit.. I win.. Sudden Shock -> Kills Icathian , you can't do shit, kill whatever you can'T do shit... I WIN YOU CAN'T DO SHIT -> SPLIT SECOND IS THE BOMB ( not to mention Angel"s grace that save your ass, Wipe Away that screws up a lot of things, extirpate, Sulfur Elemental.. )

But for replacing Bob, I really don't know... what are your suggestions

I thought also to put a splash of white in that to put Disenchant and/or Ivory Mask against Cop : Red and Discard decks that are really annoying... what do you think ?
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mtgkid wrote:
Thats what im saying madx. Its really good and people are underestimating it. Dont judge my build until you try it. Madx tried it and really liked it.... and i play it and like it.Maybe there is a pattern here Wink


Why people has problems with my name? it's Magx (like Magic but with an X instead of the 'ic") juste read it, and copy it...

I got to say good job on the deck though.. I call it Rakdos Wins Razz (ok a bit pretentious but I don'T care)


anyways, mtgkid you didn't respond to the other thing ; what card are you suggesting instead of Dark Confidant ?
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