another suspend question =/

BHenderson · Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 59

My apologies for yet another suspended card question, but Let's say I have an Izzet Guildmage in play, and a suspended ancestral visions. Now, can I just continue to pay 2U to continuously copy the suspended vision, and then copy the copies to have like, a bazillion suspended ancestral visions in play???

aldaryn · Joined: 02 Sep 2004 Posts: 408

Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can copy something that is currently suspended - it's not really in play. I think you can copy it when it resolves, in which case, I actually think you would get the effect immediately, and draw 3 cards for each copy, rather than suspending them...since suspending them was the "mana cost" and now you're using the izzet ability to make copies instead of the mana cost. Make sense?

Trouble · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 23

Another case:

When living end resolves, the creatures that came into play have haste?

Maelstrom21 · Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 2 Location: Running ar

Answer to first question: No.

Izzet Guildmage's abilities can only target instants or sorceries on the stack. Since suspended cards are removed from the game, they can't be copied. It's like how you can't keep copying a flashbacked think twice with Izzet Guildmage.

Also, you cannot copy any of the no-cost suspend spells (Ancestral Visions, Wheel of Fate) even when they're played. Think of the card's converted mana cost as being 'undefined'. Izzet Guildmage's ability asks if a spell's cmc is 2 or less. Since 'undefined' is not less than two (it's not anything, for that matter), it can't be copied, at least to my understanding.

Answer to second question: No. The creatures are summoning sick. They can't attack or use tap abilities unless they've been under your control since the beginning of your turn (before your untap step).

DRINKALCOHOL · Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 265 Location: New Gunsqu

ElvishGod · Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 2924

When the last counter is removed it is put on the stack... you could copy it then....

aldaryn · Joined: 02 Sep 2004 Posts: 408

I think I agree with ElvishGod...but this might be a better question for Wizards' Q of the day or something, or someone who can prove they know what they're talking about (judge?).

BHenderson · Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 59

More specifically, while the ancestral vision is suspended can you target it w/ the guildmages ability?... since the ability of the izzet guildmage merely states "a sorcery spell you controll". Basically, I'm looking to see if the "suspended RFG zone" is still considered "under your controll....

onecleanceli · Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 185

the part about "sorcery spell you control" doesnt apply while it is suspended, or more importantly, RFG.. you own the card, but you dont 'control' the spell until it tried to resolve, or at least the guildmage sees it like that... think of it this way... vision is RFG while suspended right.... well, with think twice in the graveyard, can you copy it while its there, no... once the vision's last counter is removed, and is placed onto the stack during your upkeep as being "played" you have priority and may attempt to copy it at that point, whichever copies resolve, you draw 3 cards per copy immediately, then the original spell tries to resolve.... as someone else said tokens have no mana cost, however their converted mana cost (for spells as far as repeal is concerned) is 0... which means you could as well, spellburst visions for just a U mana.... mana cost is just what is printed on the card, converted mana cost is the total ammount of mana spent to play the card.... when visions resolves, at this point in time, the converted mana cost is now 0...... does this clear things up?

BHenderson · Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 59

Much appreciation, that about covers it....

KeySam · Joined: 14 Oct 2005 Posts: 481

can i imprint then restore balance on panoptic mirror?

JDude · Joined: 26 Mar 2006 Posts: 25

djww19 · Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Posts: 396

There's no reason why Izzet Guildie couldn't touch it when it goes onto the stack. After the last counter is removed from a suspend spell, it's put onto the stack, it doesn't automatically resolve, or they would be a lot better than they are.

Yes, the copies will resolve at that moment, they will not have to be suspended, etc.

Yes, you can imprint them on Panoptic Mirror, too.

Shyft- · Joined: 06 Nov 2004 Posts: 100 Location: Your Mom

The card's converted mana cost, while undefined, is viewed as less than 2 by the game rules when the Izzet Guildmage's requirements for copying check whether or not it is a legal target for the announcement of the ability. This is due to new rules created specifically to handle the new suspend cards. Woohoo, you can play Evermind with Isochron Scepter now too!

Also, flashbacked think twice can in fact be copied by Izzet Guildmage, its CMC is still 2.

The amount actually spent to play a spell when you play it is called the "total cost". Anything that changes mana costs of spells (stormscape familiar, trinisphere, chill etc.) only affects the total cost. This includes additional costs like buyback and such. The converted mana cost is only what's printed in the top-right corner of the card.

"Mana Cost" and "Converted Mana Cost" are the same thing.

Again, Converted Mana Cost only refers to the total number of mana in the top-right corner. Blinkmoth Infusion (12UU) is 14. Death Cloud (XBBB) is 3 except when it's on the stack, which is the only time X has a defined value. If I play Shifting Wall with X=147, the CMC is 147 while it's on the stack, and is 0 as soon as it resolves or is otherwise removed from the stack.

Ronnan · Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 139