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dovescape.... makes ideal playable?


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onecleanceli



Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i was the first person around (my area) to even think about trying ideal.. i took it to regionals, back before MD block rotated out, and i played 5 color ideal, using black bringer (always fun to drop bringer OR genju of the realm on 3rd turn) and i actually did really well, minus people stalling against me b/c they didnt know what to do.... i think im going to have to bring it back with this newly found enchantment
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AlexTrebek



Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's in your hand before you play ideal, it's a useless card even moreso then weirding or genju.
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AlexTrebek



Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it could bring back the urw worlds deck for a little while but that deck always beat gruul.
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Maksym



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

am i the first to point out that if u have that in play first it will counter ideal and if u have ideal first u cant play that enchantment and if ideal is countered it doesnt make copies unlees u do boseiju but u have no way to make the deck consistent
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COOLBOY



Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 399

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wont the ideal copies get countered with this in play?
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NahHolmes



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is if you get either this or Mind Cage in hand before you can Ideal it out you are screwed as they suddenly have a flying army and Form of Dragon won't help you and running multiple copies of either is unrealistic. Picture you playing this then EOT I cast all the instants in my hand and swing for lethal damage.
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SOAD



Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 235
Location: In my Comp

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may be cool in Ideal Deck, coz you get it first with Ideal, then you go for NOSB, then You get From and its GG.

If you are good enough using the deck it will be very playable for wining FNMs.

I was also thinking and i know it sucks but may work "Reito Lantern" may be in SB, for the Hate, even so, the NOSB is good vs all aggro decks, so you may win time, but the truble its with the lands, i was thinking that the most stable mana base for the Ideal deck is almost the same as the GG mana base, you may use 4 colors, and GG also does, but the combo will be different.

Laughing Confused . we shall work to make it a good deck, you must not think to play each enchantment, you must get concentrated to gat the ideal before you get the best enchantments in hand.
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theTJtrooper



Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
ideal copies will not be countered, as you are technically not playing them, just putting them on the stack.



Quote:
The official rules for the epic ability are as follows:

502.44. Epic

502.44a Epic represents both a static ability and a delayed triggered ability. "Epic" means, "For the rest of the game, you can't play spells." and "At the beginning of each of your upkeeps, copy this spell except for its epic ability. If the spell is targeted, you may choose new targets for the copy." See rule 503.10 for more information about copying spells.

502.44b A player can't play spells once a spell with epic he or she controls resolves, but effects (such as the epic ability itself) can still put copies of spells onto the stack.


The copy of the spell put onto the stack doesn't have the epic ability, so exactly one copy is put onto the stack at the beginning of each of your upkeeps. (You don't get one, then two, then four copies, and so on.)


Choices made while playing the original epic spell are copied, but not any text or color alterations made to that spell. However, the epic ability does allow the player to choose a new target as the copy is put onto the stack.


A copy of a spell is still a spell, and it can be countered.


Combo works. End result, play ideal, fetch this, make 7 1/1 flyers a turn.
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ant900



Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 2525
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the copy is still a spell, yes, but it is put directly on the stack, therefore does not trigger "plays a spell" abilities such as this one, this is pretty much the same reason why myojins+TnN didnt work
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onecleanceli



Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeh, trust me, like i said, i played ideal at a regional tourney.... ur upkeep starts, its a triggered ability, you, as a player, put a spell onto the stack, you do not 'play' the spell, while it is on the stack, it can be targetted just like any other spell, in a sense such that it can be redirected, countered, copied, etc. etc. etc.... if you fetch the Dovescape, it comes directly into play... next turn, ur upkeep, ideal triggers, goes immediately onto the stack, once again can be targetted, if its not, you fetch an enchantment and it goes directly into play, there is no "playing" of spells, which SHOULD be obvious to EVERYONE but noobs considering ideal SPECIFICALLY states that you CANT PLAY SPELLS
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Angryaeisia



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it in a G/W deck with Glare, maybe a little blue for control.
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NahHolmes



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoops. Hide/Seek just made Ideal way worse.
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Maksym



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ideal is a bad deck. The reason that it is not tier 1 at the moment isnt the fact that doveescape isnt in there but the fact that it is too slow. Think about it logically 90% of the time when u resolve ideal you win the game and yet ideal seems to be winning less than 50 percent of their games... hmm goes to show how little it goes off. I hate to say this to all the people here but you guys are all slooooow... nothing personal but the forecast mechanic plus ideal should get u salavitating much more than doveescape plus ideal some food for though (lets see how long it takes to digest)
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Jedidawn



Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ideal IS countered by Dovescape http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/jc89
... but you can still race your opponent on the tokens Rolling Eyes
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theTJtrooper



Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q: If you have played Enduring Ideal and search up Dovescape, at the beginning your next upkeep when the epic copy goes onto the stack, does the Ideal get countered by the Dovescape and give you seven 1/1 Bird tokens? --Daniel

A: Yes, the epic copy will get played, Dovescape will trigger, and the trigger will counter the copy and give you seven Birds.

Quote:
yeh, trust me, like i said, i played ideal at a regional tourney.... ur upkeep starts, its a triggered ability, you, as a player, put a spell onto the stack, you do not 'play' the spell, while it is on the stack, it can be targetted just like any other spell, in a sense such that it can be redirected, countered, copied, etc. etc. etc.... if you fetch the Dovescape, it comes directly into play... next turn, ur upkeep, ideal triggers, goes immediately onto the stack, once again can be targetted, if its not, you fetch an enchantment and it goes directly into play, there is no "playing" of spells, which SHOULD be obvious to EVERYONE but noobs considering ideal SPECIFICALLY states that you CANT PLAY SPELLS


Rolling Eyes
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