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Problem with a rule.


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> General Magic-League Issues
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iKe



Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 530
Location: New York

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another person complaining about the rule.......

Dude your not the first one who complained and most probally not gonna be the last. .....

THE RULES NOT CHANGING PEOPLE GET OVER IT!!!!
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Jerry_Christ



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y not?
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Argent



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rule is the rule. Its not a bad rule, nor is it an amazing rule though. What is so unacceptable about decideing a tie like that? Have you thought about the motivation behind why they chose that particular way?

My take is this: If there is a tie it needs to be decided by the skills of the players, NOT by random. According to precident around here, extra turns will not be allowed and for good reason. Now that leaves us with the current state of affairs, life being equal we cant use G3's results. Now its between G1 and G2. What is the differeance (other than the fact that both players won one of those) between the two? Sideboards. Should we reward the player who was able to win the matchup before Sideboarding, or after? They have decided to go with before SB.

Well...personally I think the reward should go to the person who won game 2 as this MAY have shown the best adaptation to the matchup. Then again it could have been just as random, but at least there is a case to be made for it. The Game 1 winner may have been aribitrary and so perhaps changning it to Game 2's winner is a better idea. However, the principle stands and the rule is not a bad one. Adapt and overcome!
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Stryfe-



Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been thinking, why cant they just give people a 2 minute extention. If after the extention is over the life totals are the same then you can let the gay de la gay same life rule come into effect. Just give people a chance to win the match before people just say, oops same life i won game 1 sorry buddy rules are rules.

Thats just my 2 cents
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fattyxp



Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So basically what you are saying, in baseball during the world series, in game seven, if after the 9th inning the two teams are tied, the one who won the first game should win the world series instead of going into extra innings? The tie breaker shouldn't be something that has already happened, thats just plain stupid. Same thing with hockey, instead of going into OT or a shootout, should the winning team be decided by the team that had the highest first period score? In every other type of tournement or sporting event, the winnner is always chosen by more play, not by something thats happened already.
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NahHolmes



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaming Isnt Allowed.(Hawk)

Last edited by NahHolmes on Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Taoofss



Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 321

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we at least have the person whos getting shafted not lose rating points? Like have the match be a flipped. Doesnt this sound fair?
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TugaChampion



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 615

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a flip would be better. Cause that way the guy that wins G1 and sometime has already passed can just stall during G2 and in G3 stall while making SB changes and then shuffling 20 times instead of 3 or 4 times and mulling to 3 or 4 and then the time is over. It's very easy for the player who wins G1 to win the round this way. If it was a flip they he wouldn't do that.
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Laplie



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 561

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So basically what you are saying, in baseball during the world series, in game seven, if after the 9th inning the two teams are tied, the one who won the first game should win the world series instead of going into extra innings?


The difference here is that there are players involved other than the two people in the game. Notice how the finals are untimed.

Also, since you referenced hockey, hockey used to have ties. Because single elimination tournaments can't have ties (only swiss can), we must apply tiebreakers.[/quote]
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Malice



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 91

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:12 pm    Post subject: LOL Reply with quote

I think its hilarious that *some people* would rather enforce an obvious bad rule then try to come up with a good rule. Not even 1 judge is going to say with a straight face this is a good rule.
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fattyxp



Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey used to have ties... in regular season games. In playoffs (IE Elimination matches) there were always tiebreakers. I am only referencing professional sports because it is something that everyone knows about.

So I'm just starting out here, if I was rated top 30 on DCI lists, but you are 190823901823 but have a higher rating than me here, you should win? Fact of the matter is no rating system should determine the winner. How often does a top seeded team in college basketball win? Not quite as often as they would if they were just handed the title based on ratings.

I understand that it inconviences other players (woohoo an extra couple of minutes, GOD WHAT A WASTE OF TIME.....) If a player is unwilling to wait an extra 5 minutes for the match to be over, then tough luck, wait or be disqualified.

So a couple years ago, the Yankees won their series in three games, but the other two teams had to go a full five games, giving the yankees an extra WEEK to wait for the games. Is an extra 5 or 10 minutes that big of a deal?

Because of the completly random nature of your deck after shuffling, how should sideboarding really determine who wins? I'm sure there are many instances where people won or lost the next game before even one of the sideboarded cards had come out of his library. I've had an instance where I've drawn a great starting hand, but the next 8 cards were lands, and what was in my hand wasn't enough to win. My opponent won on turn 7. None of my sideboarded cards even showed up, and the cards I had put in were perfect against his deck.(I even mana shifted just before this game, just a really unlucky shuffle I suppose)
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NahHolmes



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was joking on the rating thing just to show what other peoples opinions you would not agree with.
How does any extention solve the problem?
OK say there is a 5 turn extention well there's no way to keep track of turns so thats not possible.
Ok say theres a 5 mins extention, well at the end of 5 mins there is a tie on life now what?
The fact is any other system is a huge waste of time. Noone is paying judges to play on M-L and sometimes 5 upkeeps can last over 10 mins. (Ask anyone whos gone to a major tourney)
So a mini that would last aprox. 3 hours now (4 rounds) could be extended 40 mins just on turns. Yeah the result being less minis which = bad.
Bottom line is noone is making loot of M-L if you don't like it go pay money and play MTGO.
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fattyxp



Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do like the coin flipping idea, it makes the most economical sense in regards to time saving. But whatever, it seems as though you are going to disagree with everything that I say. Probably because you have benifited from this rule in the past. The 10 minutes an extra 5 upkeeps takes could be all the difference a game needs, if after the first extension the life total is still tied, then perhaps coin flipping or some other method of determining a winner. How about who won their respective game in the fewest turns? or who has delt the most damage in the tied match (and life totals are tied because of life gaining abilities)
The fact is there are many more fair ways of determining a winner for a match in a timely manner than to award based on something that has already happened.
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TugaChampion



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 615

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giving time extentions is not an option. Tourneys already take so long and that way they would take even more. G2 winner would be a bit better but still not good enough. The best way is a flip. We must use a way that doesn't consume more time and that it's not already know before G3. The problem with G2 or G1 winner is stalling. With G1 winner the problem is bigger coz he will stall during G2 and until G3 starts. The G2 winner would only stall until G3 starts. In those 2 situations when G2 ends the players already know who's gonna win if their life's are the same. A flip would solve this problem.
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Alandariel



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 217

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stryfe- wrote:
I've been thinking, why cant they just give people a 2 minute extention. If after the extention is over the life totals are the same then you can let the gay de la gay same life rule come into effect. Just give people a chance to win the match before people just say, oops same life i won game 1 sorry buddy rules are rules.

Thats just my 2 cents


I wish you geniuses would read what you respond to. Two people have said, "What happens when the time is up on the extension? Have another extension?" Obviously you didn't read everything Stryfe- said here. Once the extension is up, your irrelevant-to-actual-match-outcome rule comes into effect. I believe that this is the best idea yet. If you don't agree, the flip rule would at least be better as it doesn't take time, it gives either player a chance to win as game one means very little, and everyone's happy in the long run. Some decks always win game one versus other decks but crush them after sideboard. Game one is often times a complete formality as after sideboard one deck usually has a distinct advantage over the other.

I have at least put good arguments out there to why the rule is absurd, instead of just saying it's dumb and needs to be changed. However, honestly, the rule is dumb and needs to be changed.

Thanks,
Alandariel
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