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March 13 Ban/Restricted Update



 
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wolfman2nast



Joined: 02 Jul 2014
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:08 am    Post subject: March 13 Ban/Restricted Update Reply with quote

No changes to any format was the verdict. How do you guys feel about this?

Given the highly debated 'three-deck-format' that is standard, all the complaints about fast mana and the calls for unbans in modern, as well as concerns regarding consumer confidence and micromanagement (none of which concrens me too much personally), did the wiz kids make the right call?

I'm pretty impartial but would've liked to have seen vehicles take some kind of hit. Be it heart of kiran, scrapheap, or possibly even Gideon. My observations are that mardu vehicles gets the most efficient pressure, the best answers to opposing pressure, and the most consistent curve into its power. One of those three attributes can be enough to make a top tier deck, and I would've liked if it had been knocked down a peg in some dimension.

Did they do the right thing? And what do you guys think their thought process was beyond the vague article?
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 887

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally think, we are now living in the first period of magic where the scales have tipped to far the other way. Creatures have reached the point, where they are simply to powerful for their mana cost. It does not matter if you print answers of equal power level, as the power level is so high at only 1, 2, 3 mana that the damage is already done if you do not have the answer immediately.

In days gone by this was not the case you had sometime, to find answer.

I think one of the best examples of power creep can be taken by looking at watchwolf, a card printed at a time when magic was considered excellent by many. At the time people thought it was two powerful essentially a gw for a vanilla 3/3.

Now lets look at scrap heap scrounger 2 mana any type, 3/2 for colourless, can not block may recur for 1b, at instant speed. So much easier to cast, meaning it can be played in any deck, the draw back of not blocking is nothing in an aggro deck. Recur for just 1B. You had to pay 10 mana to recur firemane angel that has just one extra power over scrounger, plus much more restrictive in terms of mana. Crazy power creep, in the direction of aggressive threats has finally gone to far.

Hence there is not really any format that I am Interested in playing atm.
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Censored



Joined: 12 Mar 2016
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you make a valid point, but i think its mostly true only for low mana cost creatures
the high end mana costs, say >6, dont seem to have got that much more powerful in the last few years, and i think that can be seen in modern, where only a few of the big creatures replace old ones, but plenty of <4 mana creatures have found their way into decks

problem wizards has is no one is interested in vanilla creatures, or small creatures without great abilities. once their standard format rotates out no one will want them, their value will be lost.
they have to keep printing new creatures they feel are at least as powerful as old ones, so people playing all formats will want some, and lets not forget that as time goes on, it becomes harder and harder to come up with new creatures that arent basically copies of old ones
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 887

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude did you forget emrakul and the eldrazi in general that quick! But it matters less with more expensive creatures. Its extremely rare for anything over 3cc to be broken as it just has to be so powerful to do so, which says a lot about emrakul even treating it as an 8 mana spell, by far the highest cc card to ever be broken.

Personally I think reducing the power level would enhance the game in the long run and create the environment most people want, and printing OP cards is a short sighted policy typical of modern day business (where CEOS get big bonuses for achieving short term targets, knowing they will be CEO of a different company soon enough to not care about the long term future) which could eventually lead to the games demise. I think people would buy cards regardless and flashy must have cards are not needed and creating a fuller game play experience would be a better strategy.

I also agree with what brian de mars said that, just nerfing any strategy people say they don't like is bad for the game. In truth most people don't like losing and will just dislike whatever they are losing to and plenty of people are always going to be losing more than they were in prior formats. People are going to complain no matter what they do, i dont like land destuction, I don't like counterspells, I dont like discard, I dont like hate cards, these are the words of serial losers dont listen to them. I dont mind if wizards print these things, they all made the game what it was. The thing that concerns me is keeping games challenging mentally stimulating diverse and allowing for a creative element. Reducing and making a more even power level across cards, is the simplest way to achieve this and is better for the game in the long run.
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wolfman2nast



Joined: 02 Jul 2014
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally hypothetical situation/rant:

I'm a car company, and i need you to purchase cars from me. I produce the 'voltranic' as my premier vehicle, and it is most popular among my line of cars. A few months after recalling three different parts despite the rammifacations being unclear, I publicly admit one particular part of my car has been having unexpected interactions with another particular part, and may be contributing to an overall worse experience driving a voltranic. With a chance to do a second recall to possibly correct/aggitate the problem, no action is taken. Now you still hear polarizing oppinions from a noticeable portion of voltranic customers regarding their experiences with those particular parts and the voltranic in general, some good and some bad. Will you still buy a voltranic?
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 887

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. I don't drive:P
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Lord_Cuddles



Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just in general, cards with 1 cmc are hard to balance.
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radioactivez



Joined: 14 Aug 2015
Posts: 270

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I highly doubted Gideon would get banned as he is leaving soon anyways. I Really hope that the "no changes" means that AMK will "fix" things. I am hoping for many answers in AMK things that stop vehicles better, things that wrath better, things that handle Raikitty better. Nicol will probably not be in the 1st set mainly as that is the set where std will slow down enough to make bolas actually good. Look at nissa (5 mana) one she is 5$ and she has the quickest ultimate in a while. this is a crime I doubt they will make a Bola that would ever be under 15$ The mana of the current std is Too vastly open and hopefully with rotation will lose some deck due to mana leaving.
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Lord_Cuddles



Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a spoiled wrath already
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radioactivez



Joined: 14 Aug 2015
Posts: 270

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah.. its trash. i want a wrath that hits uncrewed vehicles. more like a planar cleansing or one that hits only artifacts.
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Lord_Cuddles



Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you want Pithing Needle. There's no way that they'd do a 'vehicles matter' card into a non vehicle set. Artifact destruction is plausible, though.
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