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Mardu Control/Superfriends (Deck Tech)



 
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dannydb
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 16 Mar 2015
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:08 pm    Post subject: Mardu Control/Superfriends (Deck Tech) Reply with quote

hi all

so i'm currently running a mardu control/superfriends deck to some success mostly down to the fact no one is running many hero's downfall at the moment, and i believe the meta is very weak to anger of the gods (jaceki, abzan aggro, UR artifacts and mono red all suffer vs it- its kills all the mana dorks in GR ramp as well)

here is the deck list broken down in to sections- feel free to give it criticisms, surgestions or even end of the world nayssayings

lands
2 Battlefield Forge
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Caves of Koilos
2 Mountain
4 Nomad Outpost
3 Swamps
2 Temple of Malice
4 Temple of Silence
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Essentially this is a red black deck, splashing white for sorin and elspeth, therefore all the lands generare red or black mana with 12 white sources to facilitate the splash- while a lot of the lands come in to play tapped, it seems to be giving me enough mana to allow me most of the time to resolve my spells on time



Spot revmoval
2 Crackling Doom
2 Hero's Downfall
1 Murderous Cut
1 Ultimate Price
3 Utter End

The spot removal has a nice mix of creature and permanent removal with crackling doom doing a great job vs esper dragons and GR devotion (its awesome when they tap out for dragonlord ojutai and you send it to its doom from out of no where) the downfalls also dealing with planeswalkers, with the utter ends deal with all the troublesome enchantments and artifacts for good- I'm looking at you spy network and sphinxes tutelage

Sweepers
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Crux of Fate
1 Perilous Vault
not at all your standard sweeper suite essentially the angers do a great job vs deathmist raptor, tokens, hangerback walkers mana dorks, fleecemane lions meanwhile the sweepers kill everything else- i'm not running languishes, as between the angers and the cruxs there is little to languish- outside of anafenza there isn't anything that comes out turn 3-4 that doesn't die to anger

Planeswalkers
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Liliana Vess
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Your win cons/extra control elements/pure sex symbols (here's looking at you lilly) essentially this collections of plainswalkers help you control the game and once you have control win it for you, Chandra is great at pinging down elvish mystics and satyr wayfinders so you don't need to spend spells killing them as well as acting as an extra outpost siege elspeth- well we know what she can do, lilly is a discard forcer and tutor, allowing you to find what you need between sweeper, win con or ugin sarkhan is your quickest win con and doubles as a removal spell, sorin is pretty great either with sarkhan or elspeth allowing you to get so life back, and his vampire isn't bad on an empty board, well a ugin if you can get to him restarts the game- which isn't bad when your running a lot of 5 drops as your opponent might not be

Utility/discard/"card draw"
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Mardu Charm
4 Thoughtseize
2 Outpost Siege
essentially everything that doesn't fit in the above, the command and charm are kill spells and extra discard outlets, thoughtseize is well, thoughtseize and outpost siege acts as a card draw of sorts- have been pondering read the bones in its place, but its life loss has been an issue most of the time- this probably the biggest downside to not playing blue

SB: 1 Anger of the Gods
SB: 3 Arashin Cleric
SB: 1 Crackling Doom
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 3 Goblin Rabblemaster
SB: 2 Outpost Siege
SB: 2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
SB: 1 Orbs of Warding
SB: 1 Perilous Vault
Lastly the sideboard essentualy extra sweepers for the more creature heavy match ups, clerics and orbs for the mono red match up a extra doom, duress and rabbles for the control match ups (cos watching someone side out all there creature removal to be met with a turn 3 rabble is funny) also trying out brimaz as an extra blocker/threat/thing not sure if i like him yet as double white is an issue on turn 3 but still not sure- might ditch him for a quicker win con (DL Kolaghan/stormbreath maybe or something completely different maybe the black regent as an extra nuke or something)


thats the deck list, please post your surgestions
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 898

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perilous Vault and planeswalkers is a nombo, cut it for a different sweeper.

I like the deck its quite well built, but its a little clunky, your really leaning heavy on thoughseize to leave them with out an early play which sometimes it does not. I think you want some number of bile blights. You have more than enough black sources to run the card.

3 Utter End feels like overkill your paying over the odds to kill something, for the knowledge end deals with it end of. With command already to answer artifacts see whip and hero's downfall for walkers, atleast one could probably be a heros downfall. Even in a meta full of ensoul artifact I would not want more than 2 maybe even one, you can always tutor for it with lilli anyway.

Id try and focus on lowering your curve where ever you feel you can, you know the deck better than me so you know which cards are performing well and which are lagging a little and could potentially be cut or reduced in numbers. If you can get to having 10 things to cast turn 2 or before I'm counting thoughtseize in this. That should fix most your curve issues.

You could also easily include hangerback walker, as you are at 25 lands and playing for a long game and its a great value card, makes for a nice Liliana target and would allow you to make use of the return creature mode on command to devastating effect. It might be a creature and all, but it makes most removal look awfull, so it fits the deck.

Hope this helps.
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judas_bcn



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what i see are lots of double color costed cards, and too many 3-4 cmc spells that need to be casted in time to be effective (almost never efficient - too high mana costs). this leads to the mana-base, usually a problem in mardu, it is a HUGHE problem in this deck - as you will be doing things, yes, but probably a turn later than efficient.
some shocks and fewer sweepers seem a nice swap to lower the curve and give you some more early plays. (the exiling shock is probably the best now - hey hangerback walkers!). just one utter end, even a mana rock would be a better play, fixing mana and ramping towards a big sweeper or a game controlling PW.
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dannydb
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 16 Mar 2015
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GreenBear wrote:
Perilous Vault and planeswalkers is a nombo, cut it for a different sweeper.

it is a bit of a nombo, which is why its a one off- but its the only way to deal with some troublesome enchantments- there isn't any other way to kill them outside of utter end,

I like the deck its quite well built, but its a little clunky, your really leaning heavy on thoughseize to leave them with out an early play which sometimes it does not. I think you want some number of bile blights. You have more than enough black sources to run the card.

Thanks, yer, not realy sure what else to do-anger and thoughseize are my main plays but yes maybe a bile blight or something might be useful- but looking at the choices from gather (discounting white) there doesn't seem to be a lot of options, hanger back is an option, but then i'm giving them something for all there removal to be useful vs- maybe lightning strike? even if there is nothing for me to kill with it i could throw it at there face? not sure thats the road i want to go down though

3 Utter End feels like overkill your paying over the odds to kill something, for the knowledge end deals with it end of. With command already to answer artifacts see whip and hero's downfall for walkers, atleast one could probably be a heros downfall. Even in a meta full of ensoul artifact I would not want more than 2 maybe even one, you can always tutor for it with lilli anyway.

Good point, could change it for a downfall or an anger

Id try and focus on lowering your curve where ever you feel you can, you know the deck better than me so you know which cards are performing well and which are lagging a little and could potentially be cut or reduced in numbers. If you can get to having 10 things to cast turn 2 or before I'm counting thoughtseize in this. That should fix most your curve issues.



You could also easily include hangerback walker, as you are at 25 lands and playing for a long game and its a great value card, makes for a nice Liliana target and would allow you to make use of the return creature mode on command to devastating effect. It might be a creature and all, but it makes most removal look awful, so it fits the deck.

Hangerback could be an option, as said it does give me an option for command (most of the time its shock a creature discard a card at instant speed) i'll have to try it out- sadly there isn't an anticipate style card in red black! however it does die badly to my own angers so i'll be adding another nombo

Hope this helps.


judas_bcn wrote:
what i see are lots of double color costed cards, and too many 3-4 cmc spells that need to be casted in time to be effective (almost never efficient - too high mana costs). this leads to the mana-base, usually a problem in mardu, it is a HUGHE problem in this deck - as you will be doing things, yes, but probably a turn later than efficient.

having played this a few times, the mana colours aren't an issue with the main ones being black and red- other than elsbeth there isn't and double white cards and so i've not had any issue getting from double red on turn 3 to double black on turn 5 for my wraiths- if anything having white was an issue, but added some more white sources since the original build and its working o.k does mean i'm reluctant to add in radiant fountains

some shocks and fewer sweepers seem a nice swap to lower the curve and give you some more early plays. (the exiling shock is probably the best now - hey hangerback walkers!). just one utter end, even a mana rock would be a better play, fixing mana and ramping towards a big sweeper or a game controlling PW.

that's an interesting idea, though the shock doesn't kill deathmist, which is a huge issue for control decks, even if it is seeing slightly less play now- the only mana rock i can think of is the mardu banner and meteorite could try them as a one off, but sadly outside of green there isn;t that much


thanks for your ideas all- i'll give it some thought and try some things out[/i]
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judas_bcn



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, the exiling shock does indeed take care of raptors... in their morph status. it is good at threatening their morphs (specially den protector), and if they can't megamorph they're just expensive vanilla 2/2. it also kills mana dudes and almost every mono-R creature.
taking out 2 utter ends reduces the need for white. i would definitively replace them with hangerback walkers, as it gives you a flexible threat that works well with crackling doom and works as sort of colorless mana sink (since you have a reactive deck it is nice to have a mana sink). also makes more difficult for your opp to SB as they cannot take all their removal out or they'll die to a million flying topthers.
i would also take 1 crux of fate out and an additional crackling doom in, at least MB (the 3rd CoF can still be placed in SB), as spot removal is so much better in the current meta...
even if you could ease the mana base a little more, you could fit in the charging land so you can more easily ramp into any of your PW.
also, in SB, sieges work horribly with the rest of your deck (what if it nets you a legend you already have in play? what if, after sweeping and killing everything, you control the board with a couple soldiers and vampires tokens and it nets you an anger of the gods?), those slots are probably better filled with read the bones or even risen executioner for instance, if you're concerned with the control matchup, and brimaz replaced with stormbreath dragon.
speaking of what, your main vulnerability is the air, so a SB way to protect you and PWs from the skies menace would be fine. dunno what to choose though, maybe an instant speed removal that beats all wingmate roc, stormbreath and mantis rider at an efficient mana rate (dunno what could be), or some way to stall in the air.
another problem i can see is that, as you're trying to go grindy, you need a way to reliably get rid of courser or you'll lose any attrition game against them. ultimate price is the choice, as the only threat it does not take care of is mantis rider. (which you can control with bile blight or draconic roar or similar)
ashiok is also a vulnerability you should be aware of.
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 898

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure you see the difference between 1 hangar back and 10 planeswalkers the likelihood of it being an issue is much smaller.

And I agree on the 2 drop slot being terrible at the moment in terms of options. Standard has had many odd looking curves even in competitive decks because of it. But with your decks curve I can guarantee that will be the most common way you lose games, rdw gets under you and burns you out abazn aggro can do the same and other decks. Sure sometimes a third turn anger will save you but your only running two so you can not rely in it.

If your having issues with what to cut, one thing you can do, is rate every card you drew out of 10, after every game you play only easy to do with online testing. Its much easier to do than it sounds once you've got it set up. It makes identifying weak links much easier.
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