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Desecration Demon


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Magic Rulings

The judge will rule: Demon was cast in...
Pre-Combat Mainphase
65%
 65%  [ 13 ]
Post-Combat Mainphase
35%
 35%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 20

Author Message
derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:49 am    Post subject: Desecration Demon Reply with quote

During his turn, Ardo casts Desecration Demon and passes the turn: “Go”. Nokia wants to sacrifice her Voice of Resurgence to the Demon trigger, but Ardo objects: “I played it in my second main phase”. The players disagree on when the Desecration Demon was actually cast, so call for a judge. The judge determines no communication on phases/steps was done during Ardo's turn.

What do you think will the judge rule?
In which mainphase was the Desecration Demon cast? Can Nokia sacrifice the Voice of Resurgence?
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Rath



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this IRL or MWS/Apprentice/etc ?
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BIRDYYY



Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: Desecration Demon Reply with quote

CMA-Flippi wrote:
During his turn, Ardo casts Desecration Demon and passes the turn: “Go”. Nokia wants to sacrifice her Voice of Resurgence to the Demon trigger, but Ardo objects: “I played it in my second main phase”. The players disagree on when the Desecration Demon was actually cast, so call for a judge. The judge determines no communication on phases/steps was done during Ardo's turn.

What do you think will the judge rule?
In which mainphase was the Desecration Demon cast? Can Nokia sacrifice the Voice of Resurgence?



Ardo is assumed to be in Main Phase 1 until he announces otherwise or has clearly gone through attack phase. He should have no chance in this arguement.
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derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is IRL.
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saurgoth



Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 267

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Desecration Demon Reply with quote

BIRDYYY wrote:
assumed

No assumptions in Magic. Ardo can choose to cast the spell whenever it is legal to do so, and whenever he says he cast it is when he cast it.

Of course when actually playing, people rarely communicate their actions explicitly and the opponent is forced to choose between assuming intent and asking for clarification. For example, say you tap Breeding Pool and Grove of the Burnwillows to pay for Tarmogoyf. Your opponent isn't going to gain 1 life unless you go out of your way to tell him or her. If the opponent chooses not to ask for a clarification, he or she can't assume a misplay.
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Hashirama



Joined: 01 Apr 2014
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but here it matters when it was played because you can't skip phases, if the demon is in play pre-combat you can sack your resurgance
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moscowdemon
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The [O] for this question is not the same as I feel policy should dictate. That is all I will say without spoiling it. Smile
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Selkie



Joined: 22 Jul 2011
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, I remember learning this one.
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he says that he skipped the combat phase and cast Demon in the 2nd main, there should be 2 options. 1. Accept this decision, or 2. Back it up to the last agreed upon point (first main with stack empty) and continue from there.
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Terri



Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if nothing relevant is on the battlefield he can say he played it in his second mainphase.
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Jacois



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1201

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Attack phase is optional
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Hashirama



Joined: 01 Apr 2014
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can't skip your attack phase, the game goes through all the phases, and if you don't want to attack then the attack phase has 0 creatures attacking.
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BIRDYYY



Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No...you can't cast preform an action...and wait for a response at some point until you decide that its main phase 2 all of a sudden. Mabye the owner of Voice had a different play had he known it was main phase 2 and now he cant sacrifice it when he wanted.
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chakal-PT



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Desecration Demon Reply with quote

saurgoth wrote:
BIRDYYY wrote:
assumed

No assumptions in Magic. Ardo can choose to cast the spell whenever it is legal to do so, and whenever he says he cast it is when he cast it.

Of course when actually playing, people rarely communicate their actions explicitly and the opponent is forced to choose between assuming intent and asking for clarification. For example, say you tap Breeding Pool and Grove of the Burnwillows to pay for Tarmogoyf. Your opponent isn't going to gain 1 life unless you go out of your way to tell him or her. If the opponent chooses not to ask for a clarification, he or she can't assume a misplay.


"Ardo can choose to cast the spell whenever it is legal to do so, and whenever he says he cast it is when he cast it."
Obviously not! It's your turn, you untap, you draw a card... If you don't say anything and cast whatever spell you have, you are casting it on your Pre-Combat Mainphase! It's just like you said, "No assumptions in Magic", unless you say otherwise, you are on your Pre-Combat Mainphase!
It's not like that, passing your turn and after you can simply say "whenever I say I casted it is when I casted it"... LOL Seriously?!?
There's not even arguments to discussion here... It's crystal clear!
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sc4rs



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 859

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judge will back it up to the first mainphase with nothing on the stack and give both a warning for failure to maintain a clear gamestate.

Maybe.
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