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Gisela Combat Damage Step



 
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magicman85



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Gisela Combat Damage Step Reply with quote

Player 1 controls a Gisela, Blade of Goldnight.
Player 2 controls a 6/6 flying Angel token and a 4/4 flying Angel token.

Player 1 declares Gisela as an attacker.
Player 2 declares both of his angel tokens as blockers.
Player 1 chooses the damage order as the 6/6 first and the 4/4 second.
Player 2 casts Shielded Passage on his 6/6 flying Angel token.
Now when combat damage is assigned, how many points of damage would the Gisela have to assign to the 6/6 flying Angel token to be considered lethal so it could move on to the 4/4 flying Angel token?




Gisela: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=240034

Shielded Passage: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=366332
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moscowdemon
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

6
It doesn't count each damage for double for assignment, it only doubles the damage when it is being dealt. This replacement effect doesn't change needing 6 damage assigned.
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MagusGee



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may be misunderstanding the question, but I believe the problem here might be being caused by a misunderstanding of the rules.

Gisela's Oracle text reads

Quote:
If damage dealt by a source you control is being divided among multiple permanents an opponent controls or among an opponent and one or more permanents he or she controls simultaneously, divide the original amount and double the results. For example, if you attack with a 5/5 creature with trample and your opponent blocks with a 2/2 creature, you can assign 2 damage to the blocker and 3 damage to the defending player. These amounts are then doubled to 4 and 6 damage, respectively. You can't double the damage to 10 first and then assign 2 to the creature and 8 to the player.


So, when it comes to lethal damage, enough to kill the creature would have to be assigned before the damage was doubled. So, according to this fun little piece of ruling, Gisela wouldn't be able to carry any damage over to the second blocking angel token (once again, if I'm understanding the rulings correctly.)

If the core of this question came from the prevention of damage and how lethal damage thereafter is assigned, I'd like to quote the last part of comprehensive ruling 510.1c

Quote:
When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures that's being assigned during the same combat damage step, but not any abilities or effects that might change the amount of damage that's actually dealt. An amount of damage that's greater than a creature's lethal damage may be assigned to it.


So, in instances where damage would be prevented, only the amount that would've been required to be lethal if nothing effected the damage matters. This is why a creature with trample can still trample over a creature with protection from it's color.

So, in summary:

Damage from a source modifying damage is calculated as it normally would be, and then the damage is doubled.

And preventing damage doesn't really effect how lethal damage is assigned (such as in relation to damage order).

Edit: Moscow posted while I was posting. PHAIL.


Last edited by MagusGee on Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:16 am; edited 2 times in total
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent explanation anyway MagusGee.
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Clariax
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MagusGee wrote:

Players are no longer able to wait until damage orders are declared to play spells or abilities, they must be played at the end of the Declare Blockers Phase, if I understand the rulings correctly. I'm sure a judge will step in to correct or confirm my assumption. Please look at comprehensive ruling 510.1 to 510.2, specifically 510.2


Ordering blockers happens during the declare blockers step, right after blockers have been declared, before players get priority to cast spells or abilities during the step.
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MagusGee



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clariax is 100% right, declaring orders happens in the declare blockers phase. Editing my above comment to remove incongruities with the rules Very Happy Thanks for clearing that up! Very Happy
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Clariax
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MagusGee wrote:
Clariax is 100% right, declaring orders happens in the declare blockers phase. Editing my above comment to remove incongruities with the rules Very Happy Thanks for clearing that up! Very Happy


Declare Blockers Step, it's not a phase.
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