Magic-League.com Forum Index Magic-League.com
Forums of Magic-League: Free Online tcg playing; casual or tournament play.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Time to get rid of the "minibeg" rule for good.


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> General Magic-League Issues

Should minibeg become allowed?
Yes
47%
 47%  [ 16 ]
no
32%
 32%  [ 11 ]
Bananas
20%
 20%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 34

Author Message
warwizard87



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

im going to throw my two cents into the ring, i have been on both sides of this debate...well actually all 3 sides, staff, judge, player. (not staff or judge here but o-gaming yadda yadda but still)

I see far to much opposition from both sides. players and judges and staff need to get out of the "us vs them" mindset, when it comes to any online league it is the "us" mindset we need. players, staff, judges the entire league fail or succeed as a whole. I have run possibly more events then pretty much anyone else. I wish the o-gaming site was still up so i could see exactly how many i ran, being basically immobile for a entire year from a spinal injury gives you ample time to run events. i think i averaged 8 events a day for like 6 months.

Couple things i do see here, there is no active way for judges to run events the players want, alot of the time i see a "this is what i want to play and either it fires or not" attitude from alot of the judges. i get being able to pick and choose what events to run is part of the appeal to being a judge. but the system has been getting gradually broken as time goes on. Alot of judges seem to forget as judges they are still community servants. And as such from time to time should run events the channel want and not necessarily what they want. Its not difficult for a judge to ask in channel "hey any one want me to run something?" and take advice from what the people in channel want to play. if every one in channel wants a sealed and your only offering modern, is it any wonder it isnt firing? i loved #minibeg4you it gave players a way to communicate to the judges what they are willing to play with out nagging. its a shame the channel seems to be down atm.

Also, some judges have a elitist attitude. im not gonna point fingers but the reality is some do and some don't. get over it, your a judge, in a online league. Its no big deal, been there done that. In fact i was one of the most popular judges in o-gaming. My popularity wasn't because i was the best judge or the most knowledgeable, it was simply cuz i understood that people are here to have fun, i wasnt "better" then anyone else. So i ran the events people wanted to play, and when you post events people want and not just what your feeling atm you tend to garner more respect. I see to much a judge going " my t2 didnt fill, oh well later" "hey man make a modern! 6 of us wanna play modern!" judge replys "sorry don;t want to play modern" logs off.
as a former judge and staff my jaw drops at that. its like really? ignoring what the players want is the quickest way to close this places doors. arrogance of that type has no place, as a judge you get to pick the format most of the time, but every now and then you got to simply suck it up and do whats best for the league. thats the responsibility you have for the ability to chose what to play most of the time.

also, players, dudes, shut the fuck up. not every judge every day, every hour has to do exactly what you want. they are people with lives (mostly)


EDIT another point i somehow forgot was the players need to get off thier high horse expecting judges to somehow act like store owners or paid employees, they are volunteers, thats it. they are just as much a peon like you are, they are taking their time to run events not just for their benifit, but your as well. thank your tc during a trial or a master. those things are god awful to run take alot of time and are a hell of a head ache.

its time for everyone to come down and work together, i have played in many leagues, magic the gathering online, e-league, o-gaming and now here, in fighting and name calling and throwing the blame crushes leagues faster then well..modo.
my 5 cents, little more then 2 cents.


Last edited by warwizard87 on Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:43 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
warwizard87



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

also can we get rid of the ban on the term "oh-gaming" considering you know its been gone for i don't know 5 years Wink
Back to top
xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know what went wrong with minibeg4you right? Most people never visited, and it was all about 5 guys spamming 20 requests each. So I'd get on, run a t2 and spend 30 minutes clearing requests cause some jerk won't listen to the simple rule of ask once and then stop. Then you always have one guy requesting the retarded format that you KNOW won't fill - rainbow highlander extended pauper or something so his request stays up there indefinitely just clogging up space.
Back to top
warwizard87



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xJudicatorx wrote:
You know what went wrong with minibeg4you right? Most people never visited, and it was all about 5 guys spamming 20 requests each. So I'd get on, run a t2 and spend 30 minutes clearing requests cause some jerk won't listen to the simple rule of ask once and then stop. Then you always have one guy requesting the retarded format that you KNOW won't fill - rainbow highlander extended pauper or something so his request stays up there indefinitely just clogging up space.


well with the retarded format request, they had the right to request it. weather it will fill or not, its still a request. dosnt mean it needs run. now flooding the thing with the same request is redic. didnt the bot have a blocker set to limit the number you could request? if not its easy to code. just kind of sucks to come back after a hiatus and see the channel basically empty....=[ its like now i have no voice to let people know i want to play =[
also the bot would be handy to do a auto wipe every 24 hours or so, just wipe out the old requests and start over. i am not to sure how to do that in the code, but it might work with someone a little better with codeing then i am .
Back to top
GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 898

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warwizard87 is talking a lot of sense. I think most people get that judges are giving up there time for free. Some people do not appreciate this and it can cause problems and friction.

However the attitude a lot of judges have is not coherent with magic-league growing as a community. If the people in power are not prepared to listen to what the peons want, then community is much less likely to grow.

If this is not your goal then sure carry on as you are. However if you are looking to grow the community as a whole, then you better start listening to what your player base wants. Mini begging in a controlled manner allows for a very quick and effective way for the player base to express their desires.

It is not the smartest who succeeds in business, but he who understands the wants and needs of the common man. For ultimately it is the common man who determines is the business fails or succeeds. And the common man may not be able to pass the judge test but that does not mean he does not have friends he can tell about magic-league who could.
Back to top
Livermush



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 319

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just came up with a great way to solve the minibegging problem. Bring the sealed deck bot back, then we'll have something to do. Weedmonkey could totally do that, if he wanted to. I've seen his 31337 coding skillz.
Back to top
Uroboros



Joined: 03 Dec 2012
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about a qeue bot? lets make a bot were you can join queues and when there are at least 8 players in one... alerts judges4you? if there are any judge.. at least they will know it.
Back to top
Livermush



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 319

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uroboros wrote:
What about a qeue bot? lets make a bot were you can join queues and when there are at least 8 players in one... alerts judges4you? if there are any judge.. at least they will know it.


That would be pretty nice.
Back to top
xHourglass



Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, like side events at a GP. As soon as there's 8 it fires and the player's run it themselves. Judges don't supervise 8 mans until one is called for, a bot could run it.
Back to top
GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 898

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The judges have already said minis can not simply run themselves, they all say this and have a lot more experience in the matter than any non judge. So you can safely assume it is necessary to have someone with rules knowledge available to supervise a mini.

You really are just hashing up the same old argument here which normally leads to the thread being locked and detracts from the original argument that mini begging has a constructive purpose, in validating the community when controlled in the right fashion.
Back to top
Livermush



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 319

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GreenBear wrote:
The judges have already said minis can not simply run themselves, they all say this and have a lot more experience in the matter than any non judge. So you can safely assume it is necessary to have someone with rules knowledge available to supervise a mini.

You really are just hashing up the same old argument here which normally leads to the thread being locked and detracts from the original argument that mini begging has a constructive purpose, in validating the community when controlled in the right fashion.


If that were the case, then why can people play single matches through the site at any time?
Back to top
GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 898

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this has been explained multiple times already but, 1. reason is they need an incentive for people to become a judge and this carrot is the ability to run minis. If they take this carrot away they will lose all the judges.

2. I imagine the intricacies of running a mini compared to a single match is much bigger. But i can not really know as nor can anyone who is not a judge. Maybe we should listen to what they say on the matter of players running minis as you know they know what it takes. Whilst we can only imagine. They have expertise from which to access the the situation we do not. If they say it can not be done, it can not be done. You could argue otherwise if you were in a position of superior or equal knowledge but your not.

Arguing with the judges on this one is acting like a magic noob who has just come to the forums for advice and no matter now many times people tell him 16 lands is not enough for a UW control deck with 6 drops in it, he insists he never gets mana screwed.
Back to top
xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are all still missing the point of this topic IMO. Everyone is saying more minis is better and we should have more minis.

But you are all forgetting that minibegging DOES NOT relate to more minis in any way. It is SOLELY a way to make judges who are online but can not run a mini feel guilty. There is no other purpose to it. It is hateful, rude, and will drive away the same people you wish would be there more.
Back to top
GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 898

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really hateful, rude, come on.

I would be most appreciative if someone would run a type 2 mini if they have the time.

Does that sound hateful or rude. No.

Granted there are plenty of ways it could be rude but that is why you strictly control requests. Ie. no more than one request every 10 minutes or you will be banned and ask nicely as these people are giving up their time for free for you. Its amazing how better a place the world would be if everyone just used a little manners.

Guilt really, most guys seem to be able to live with the guilt of telling a girl they just met they love her then banging her and then never phoning her again. So I'm sure they can cope with this.

It does server another purpose it lets you know the wishes of the members of the community. It gives the community a voice, a means of expressing a wish to a judge. This is a good thing as long as it is done right. You need communication of wishes between the peons and the lords, to keep a happy and prosperous castle or something lol. Honestly its in the good of the community, you just need to come up with some strict rules on how it should be done and enforce it. Which is not to much effort.

I get some judges may not like it. I'm sure adjudicating between two mad magic players both throwing all sorts of accusations at each other is not fun. But it is for the good of the league the judges do this. Perhaps tolerating mini-begging could be much the same, as it could help the league grow, though honestly I can not see how it can annoy anyone unless its put in a rude way or just continuous spamming.


Last edited by GreenBear on Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
Uroboros



Joined: 03 Dec 2012
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

again... what about a queue bot that DOES the beg? i mean, if 8 people at least send a request to join a mini, the bot sends a request to judges channel, maybe wont solve the lack of minis when there are no judges, but it will give judges the information about the tourneys players want to play, and people will feel that they have a say in the channel.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> General Magic-League Issues All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All content on this page may not be reproduced without consent of Magic-League Directors.
Magic the Gathering is TM and copyright Wizards of the Coast, Inc, a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. All rights reserved.


About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy