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Regeneration and "Enters the battlefield"



 
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chakal-PT



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:37 pm    Post subject: Regeneration and "Enters the battlefield" Reply with quote

I have check the rules on Google but I'm not sure about this anyway... I appreciate that you could help me!

1a) If I have a creature with a regeneration ability, after activating it, when does the shield disappears?
1b) Can an opponent kill my creature playing a spell in response to the activation of the regenerate ability?

2) If I have a Trostani, Selesnya's Voice and a Selesnya Keyrune on play, does the activation of Selesnya ability count as a creature entering on battlefield? If not, what situations counts as "a creature entering the battlefield"

Thanks for your help!
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magicman85



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1a) shield disappears when the creature would die or at the end of the turn whichever comes first.

1b) Yes. The regeneration ability goes on the stack.

2) No. A creature enters the battlefield only when it comes from a different zone. for example, Your hand, your graveyard, RFG, your library.
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LuckyDucky



Joined: 14 Jan 2012
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

magicman85 wrote:
1a) shield disappears when the creature would die or at the end of the turn whichever comes first.

1b) Yes. The regeneration ability goes on the stack.

2) No. A creature enters the battlefield only when it comes from a different zone. for example, Your hand, your graveyard, RFG, your library.


1a) Not when the creature dies, when it would be destroyed.

1b) Also, regeneration is a replacement effect. It doesn't go on the stack. The ability that creates the regeneration effect does go on the stack.

http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Regeneration
http://www.essentialmagic.com/forums/thread.asp?id=411915
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those answers seem pretty clear, but just so you have a completely clear answer:

1a. If a creature has a regeneration shield, that shield lasts until that creature would be destroyed or until the end of the turn.
[701.12a] "Regenerate [permanent]" means "The next time [permanent] would be destroyed this turn................"

1b. The way you phrased this, yes they can. You could also choose to activate the ability a second time if you have enough resources to pay for the ability a second time. If you have just activated an ability which says "Regenerate [this]", it must go on the stack before the regeneration shield is actually created. This means that it can be responded to.


2. A creature enters the battlefield only when it goes from a zone which is NOT the battlefield onto the battlefield. If it becomes a creature without moving zones, that is a completely different thing.
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moscowdemon
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to further clarify (as I got confused reading at first myself)
1b. The question being asked is if someone can respond to the activated ability which has the effect of creating the "regen shield". Yes, you can respond to an activated ability. If this ability resolves, then it creates a replacement effect which will apply if the creature would be destroyed.
The difference:
Responding to activation rundown
- Player A casts Dreadbore targeting Lotleth Troll.
- Player B responds by paying a black mana to activate Lotleth Troll's second ability.
- Player A responds to that ability by casting Searing Spear targeting Lotleth Troll.
-- End result (assuming no further responses) -- Troll will end up in graveyard.

Responding to a replacement effect (or at least trying (hint: you can't respond to it))
- Player A casts Dreadbore targeting Lotleth Troll.
- Player B responds by paying a black mana to activate Lotleth Troll's second ability.
- Both players pass priority. Top thing on stack resolves. This creates a replacement effect to regen Troll once if it were to be destroyed until eot.
- Both players pass priority. Top thing on stack resolves. As Dreadbore is resolving, it will attempt to do the following: Destroy target creature (Lotleth Troll). As the destroy part is "occuring", the regeneration will replace the "destroying" with "regenerating". This does not use the stack and can not be responded to.

Hopefully this helps more Smile Granted, in the end of it all, you will end up at the same end state (most likely) if you spear in response or wait til the regen happens, but you never know!

Edit is for - took a while to submit my response and see xjudicatorx posted a second response which is also much clearer Smile
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chakal-PT



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your help guys!

The "entering the battlefield" question was just to make sure that I wasn't wrong about it....

But about the regenerate ability I really was confused, about the possible response to it and the shield duration!
My doubts are gone, I now understand how both situations works!

Thanks,
cHaKaL-PT
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