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MUD Cloudpost


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aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:26 pm    Post subject: MUD Cloudpost Reply with quote

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
3 [TE] Wasteland
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
4 [OD] Deserted Temple
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

// Creatures
2 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [NPH] Phyrexian Metamorph
4 [UD] Metalworker
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 [ARC] Lodestone Golem

// Spells
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [MR] Sculpting Steel
4 [NE] Tangle Wire
4 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [MR] Tower of Fortunes
2 [DS] Trinisphere

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 1 [ARC] Lodestone Golem
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [SHM] Faerie Macabre






updated:6/13/2012
update: 6/14/2012
-1 kozilek md +1 ulamog
-1 wurmcoil md +1 sculpting steel
-1 sculpting steel sb +1 kozilek
Reasons: reanimator is a real deck, and the previous version had no way to beat a resolved blazing archon. ulamog allows for the sequence of fetch & cast emrakul. Take next turn. Fetch and cast ulamog. destroy archon. Attack and destroy all of your opponents board. Also gives you an out to humility (a card that was popular in the last ml legacy tourney), in all honesty ulamog has been my favorite eldrazi for a while because of how versatile he is.

update 6/24/2012
md: -1 wurmcoil -1 trinisphere -1 maze of ith, +2 lodestone golem +1 the tabernacle at pendrell vale

the lodestones gives more of a balance between being good against aggro decks and control decks without sacrificing the ability to put my opponent on a short clock, and I swapped a maze with a tabernacle because you only need one, and the maps can always get you one when you need it, and there are situations where you can use the tabernacle with tangle wire for a wrath of god.

SB:
3 faerie macabre 3 cage; the only thing I am really that worried about is being blown out by a reanimator or a dredge deck. They are just barely too fast for me, and even affinity isnt fast enough to beat me most of the time.
3 thorn of amethys; countermeasures for anything comboish like dredge, reanimator, storm, sneak and show, other stuff
3 pithing needles; bring them in for things like recuring wasteland decks, sneak and show, mavrick decks, combo decks that use activated abillities, it's a very good versitile card.
2 wurmcoil 1 lodestone; adjusting numbers for the control mu vs. the aggro mu.

update: 6/25/2012: -3 graffdiggers cage +3 surgical extraction, against reanimator I'm going to want to stop their turn 1 reanimation and then hopefully hold them off with all of the "tax" cards I board in, cage does not do that as well as surgical. Also the changes have improved my dredge match up dramatically.


so I originally played against a version of mud post online and it caught my interest so i've been working on it a few days now an I think I am getting closer to a version that I am happy with. The deck is a prison/combo deck. It is similar to the metalworker decks except it trades speed for lockdown elements and more redundancy.

There are 2 common game plans with this deck. Both of these plans are very powerful and hard for most decks to beat.

Plan 1 (lockdown): this is my favorite plan. This plan happens a lot, the way this plan is executed is through a combination of rishadan ports, trinispheres, lodestone golems, and tangle wires, then copy the right pieces with all the clone effects. Then you drop either an eldrazi, or a ton of wurmcoils or golems and copy them. This plan is especially effective against decks that do not want to enter a late game (which is a lot of decks in legacy). This plan usually does not work very well though against decks that are capable of wining without a lot of permanents like storm or dredge.

Plan 2 (quick bomb): This plan is particularly good against decks that do not pack much permission. Basically you plan to drop an eldrazi or a lot of wurmcoils/golems around turn 3/4 and just win on the spot. Even if you opponent has the right answer though you are still developing your mana and either milk a tower, or switch to a lockdown plan.

MUs:

Dredge:
----------
g1 is better for us then most other decks. In particular, trinipheres, lodestone golems, and tabernacle (our best card against them, and we have 5 ways to play it).

SB:
+3 surgical extraction +3 macabre +3 thorn of amethyst +1 lodestone golem +2 wurmcoil engine
-4 tangle wire -1 ulamog -1 emrakul -2 tower of fortunes -4 candelabra

post board you basically completely give up all your big mana stuff, and side in a lot of grave hate, some tax cards to prevent them from having a sacrifice outlet. Lastly wurmcoil engines are fantastic since they can hold off small zombie mobs and dedicated reanimation targets. It is important to note that your top targets for surgical extractions are ichorids (since they are sacrifice outlets that dodge your tax cards) and bridges. Without those cards your opponents will be left with narcomoebas for offense which would never be able to kill you before you take over the game.


RUG Delver:
---------------

Tangle wires and rishadan ports are godsends in this matchup. Their low land count is very exploitable to this deck. In addition to tapping lands, tax cards also hit them very hard. Hold down your opponent till you can drop wurmcoil engines (which they cannot beat) or your big bad eldrazis.

SB: -1 ulamog +1 lodestone golem

your already set up pretty well as it is to beat delver decks, all you need is a small tweek to increase your odds of playing a golem. Thorns aren't as useful since they will hinder your own spells without handling their mana efficient creatures.


sneak and show:
-----------------------

G1:

your only worried about sneak attack, if your opponent plays show and tell, you get to attack first with your eldrazi and remove his threat, or you will drop a metamorph and legend rule his threat. So try to keep your opponent in tangle wires and ports long enough to develop the mana to go for emrakul or ride a wurm/golem

SB: -2 trinisphere -2 wurmcoil engine +3 pithing needle +1 lodestone golem

pithing needle on sneak attack is practically GG. And if you open a hand with pithing needle and a metamorph/eldrai, the moment you resolve a needle with a metamorph in hand the game is over. Untill your opponent casts a sneak attack just build your mana till you can ride a threat


Reanimator:
----------------

G1 is pretty bad, but that's true for all decks that do not pack md graveyard hate. lock up their mana as quickly as possible and get a trinisphere or golem into play ASAP.

SB: -2 wurmcoil engine -4 candelabra -4 expidition map

+3 macabre +3 extraction +3 thorn of amethyst +1 lodestone golem

G2 this is where it's important to have 0 mana grave hate. In particular macabre is uncounterable. Your one and only goal is to stop them from reanimating grislebrand or jin gitaxis, everything else is beatable. If your opponent goes for blazing archon, it is important to remember this sequence of plays. 1 use eye of ugin to grab emrakul, cast emrakul, take your next turn and search for and cast ulamog destroying archon, then you can attack for 15 and clear your opponents board.

Other MU's to come


Last edited by aqualad33 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:57 am; edited 8 times in total
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Burton911



Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: MUD Cloudpost Reply with quote

aqualad33 wrote:
3 [MR] Tower of Fortunes


A: no just no you are playing Le...
B: but ... but it do..
A: I SAID NO

seriously tough for two mana less you get Kozilek, and for 3 mana more you can just win the game with emrakul.
And on top you dont have to play a 4 mana artifact with a big fat red bullseye on its forhead.

I cant relly tell you much about the rest but it seems to cute imo.
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aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:56 pm    Post subject: Re: MUD Cloudpost Reply with quote

Burton911 wrote:
aqualad33 wrote:
3 [MR] Tower of Fortunes


A: no just no you are playing Le...
B: but ... but it do..
A: I SAID NO

seriously tough for two mana less you get Kozilek, and for 3 mana more you can just win the game with emrakul.
And on top you dont have to play a 4 mana artifact with a big fat red bullseye on its forhead.

I cant relly tell you much about the rest but it seems to cute imo.


I looked through all of the artifacts available to fit the card advantage slot and tower is probably the best card for that slot. I'm considering kozilesk, but it's not as cut and dry as you would think

kozilesk
pros:
big creature
anihilator
less total mana
draw four cards
cons:
no protection and everyone plays creature removal
costs more at once
cannot pay for the draw effect on my opponents turn which means that i cannot use ports to lock my opponents mana for a turn

tower
pros:
not a creature, there is much less artifact hate then creature hate
can be activated at instant speed allowing me to effectively lock my opponents mana down while I draw
its reusable

emrakul
pros:
emrakul reads "cast this you win" arbitrary text box
more then 1 is an infinite combo where you have infinite turns (which do not kill you since the emrakuls shuffle back into your deck) makes your opponent sacrifice all of his or her permanents, and you can attack infinitely

cons: (of having more then one) sits dead in hand till you have 15 mana, and more copies are dead cards.

will try out kozilesk vs. tower though
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blitzer2k7



Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 412

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you are having trouble against wastelands and such why not play a little green for life from the loam? I do really like the list though..gonna try and build something similar
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Spyx



Joined: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 1188

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Needs 4 cavern of souls. Mud decks have many hands which just lose to a FoW on the only threat you can cast early.
Edit: wait, you're not playing metalworker? whaaaaat?
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darkwizard42
Level 2 Judge


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lack of Metalworker is disturbing...he is the reason MUD works so well. And if you are going to run so many artifacts, can't see him being a bad card to play. Would cut Maze of Ith and potentially 1 Wasteland to get at least 3 Cavern of Souls in. However, Maze of Ith does look like your only out to Goblins.

Also unsure of Darksteel Forge in the SB as its going to not come out ever before turn 3/4 and even then, you would have to make sure it resolves.

Overall, going to give it a try. Wasteland is probably going to house this thing, and Combo will likely eat this thing alive. Perhaps Trinisphere or Sphere of Resistance in the SB so that you don't die to combo?
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aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
3 [TE] Wasteland
2 [DK] Maze of Ith
4 [OD] Deserted Temple
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin

// Creatures
4 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [NPH] Phyrexian Metamorph
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

// Spells
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [MR] Sculpting Steel
4 [NE] Tangle Wire
4 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [MR] Tower of Fortunes
4 [DS] Trinisphere
2 [SOK] Pithing Needle

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB: 1 [NPH] Karn Liberated
SB: 3 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 [M10] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [6E] Cursed Totem
SB: 2 [ROE] All Is Dust
SB: 4 [WWK] Lodestone Golem


tweeked the deck a bit. MD traded karn for kozilek because I would rather have the threat of being able to just win + massive card advantage than just an ability to grind in most situations.

in the board I got rid of forge because I am not too worried about artifact hate anymore, I have a lot of gas to recover from it, and usually tangle wires keep my opponent from having enough mana to effectively use their hate
got rid of a needle because 3 is enough, got rid of an all is dust because i have enough draw spells as it is and tangle wire should keep things in check till i draw one or a win con.

I put in an extra emrakul for those situations where I need to go infinite to win or when im playing against a deck that either can survive an emrakul attack and swing back for lethal (like elves) or when an opponent can win with just 1 land (like storm combo)

I also added the full 4 lodestones for combo decks, or decks that are mana light These may need to be switched to thorns for mana cost reasons.


as for metalworker, nearly all of the previous versions had him in the list but he only performs well in the early game. Way to often he is a 3 mana squire later in the game because my hand is empty. Also they make my opponents removal live. I might try them out again now that i have incorporated tower of fortunes (which i am liking a lot in this particular list) since they are so synergistic.
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aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gonna update the list in the main post, anyways as for wasteland recouping from wasteland isnt the issue, What im weak against is land destruction strategies like pox decks but that's gotten a lot better with metalworker, also metalworker got a lot better with tangle wires + trinispheres + rashadin ports. Even if it just eats a swords, that a swords that wont hit my wurmcoil engine or kozilek. Also the deck is already REALLY good against combo decks. Tangle wire is actually quite powerful against their very light mana base and trinisphere makes their cantrips terrible and their rituals useless.

as for the show and tell based decks you have eldrazi in your deck, and when your opponent casts a show and tell you get to untap first which usually results in a win.

for graveyard ones (like reanimator and dredge) tangle wire rocks and trinisphere will lock them out. post board lodestone golems and graffdiggers cages will win it for you

against sneak and show pithing needle on sneak attack forces them to use show and tell in which case you have the eldrazi and metamorphs (all of their creatures are legends)
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darkwizard42
Level 2 Judge


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loving this list a lot more. Good changes
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aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

for anyone still interested in this thread, read the main post, there are A LOT of updates! Very Happy
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aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krabik wrote:
I've tested this deck online since you've first posted it and I have to say that it's really amazing. In the beginning it lacked a removal spell that could deal with a blazing archon or some other creature/permanent that would slow you down. Now that there's Ulamog the deck is really bettter. Trading one Maze for one Tabernacle is probably a good idea too since you could have some trouble with aggro matchups. Also it's funny how you stop the TES deck if he goes for Empty the Warrens. The most underrated card in the deck is the Tower of Fortunes but I have to say, that it's a really really good draw engine since you can easily afford 12 mana on turn 3. I'm looking forward to the new updates.
Keep it up.


Yeah, the tabernacle has been doing a TON of work for me since I included it. Tabernacle is just sooooooo good with the ports and tangle wires, I was even able to beat my dreaded pox mu by tapping him out every turn so that he had to sacrifice his spirit dude that keeps coming back, and let me swing for 1 every turn with metalworker (I also had 3 thorn of amethys in play at the time).

I'm glad you got a chance to see how much of a difference those towers make. Jace seems a little more fair by comparison doesn't it? I actually had a bit of a chuckle when my stoneblade opponent dropped one while I had a tower (his jace also met ulamog the following turn).

One more important thing to note though is how great metalworker is as a plan B mana engine. A lot of the times your opponents will see cloudposts and go all in on a land destruction tactic. For example, against pox my opponent wasteland + surgical extractioned all of my cloudposts but metalworker let me drop ulamog and I won from there.
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aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krabik wrote:
These towers are the best draw engine available to the deck for sure. The one thing I'm still uncertain about are 3 Scuplting Steel in MD. Don't you get blocked by them at times? I mean you need one effective artifact on the field to play a good Sculpting Steel. What do you think?


Yeah, I did a check out every colorless magic card before deciding on tower. It is the best card printed for what I wanted to do (for anyone else reading this I did try out staff of domination for a while but it was not good enough).

as for sculpting steel, I am VERY hesitant to cut them. The only two artifact that I have been subpar to copy were trinisphere and expedition map, everything else is fantastic to copy. One of the main reasons that I do not want to cut them however is that it allows you to consistently keep your opponent under tange wire lock for a long time while you either A) set up your mana and draw a ton from tower with the intention of setting up an eldrazi or army of big guys with mean defensive abillities or B) hit your opponent repeatedly with a wurmcoil or a golem. By cutting the sculpting steels, you sacrifice some redundancy so whatever you replace them with needs to be able to compensate for this. Have you thought of what to replacing them with?
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aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krabik wrote:
First of all sorry for double posting.
The main point:
When are the other matchups coming? I'd like to know what about Esper Mage-Blade, Elfball, UR Burn. Have you played vs them already?


UR delver burn is giving me a lot of trouble. The deck's slow speed is allowing for them to out temp me too quickly, I'm re evaluating the best way to adapt this deck, and I'm not sure if it's even viable anymore. Esper mage is too slow right now to be a problem, elfball is an issue now that I cut out the cursed totems. I'm testing putting 2 tabernacles in the sb since they are very good against a lot of decks that tend to kill me quickly.
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RThomas
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: MUD Cloudpost Reply with quote

aqualad33 wrote:
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
3 [TE] Wasteland
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
4 [OD] Deserted Temple
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale


If you're seriously considering Trinisphere, not having a way to play it before turn 3 without Cloudpost is madness. What's the reason you've omitted Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors?
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