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Ban Punishing Fire?


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warwizard87



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ those lands are answers, surgical extraction is a "colorless answer" that can come out of no were. relic of progenisis has multipule uses as well as tormods crypt.
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warwizard87



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well the last modern trial of 51? players had only 10 decks with grove in it, most of them were truths burning loam or zoo style decks (decks you expect to play the combo a couple were like 4 color controlling things or eldrazi tron. out of the 10 decks 6 had broke even or had winning records. one player did go 3-0 drop with a deck containing it, this is a small sample size but it is suggesting the metagame is naturally shifting away from grove/fire decks since people are either playing decks that get around the ability or nullify it some how or simply beat the rest of the deck. This is the sign of a healthy format. it should cycle around soon as people start playing decks to beat the decks that run grove, and people don't run as much grove hate, grove will come back and the cycle starts over once more.
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seedub



Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cards like surgical extraction or extirpate are terrible answers to pfire, and if i have to explain why you probably wouldn't understand or accept it anyways. As long as Nacatls, Goyfs and KotRs are the go to aggro guys pfire won't get out of hand but if they were to ban say Wild Nacatl other creature decks might be able to catch up with zoo and then pfire becomes too oppressive. And pfire itself won't get banned it would be grove, as grove is the card being abused in a way it wasnt intended to be and can still potentially be abused with things like Kavu Predator while pfire is a very fair card without grove.
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warwizard87



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one has given a good reason to ban it anyway. And surgical is a fine answer to it that has applications accross other decks.
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warwizard87



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one has given a good reason to ban it anyway. And surgical is a fine answer to it that has applications accross other decks.
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seedub



Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

surgical extraction on pfire is dropping a card from your hand to get a card in their graveyard, typically after its been cast or discarded for value. Sure, youve stopped the pfire engine but youve given them free card advantage to do so. extraction is only a real answer to very specific dedicated combo decks that cant survive without a card that will often find its way to the graveyard before you lose (such as say... past in flames). Otherwise youre setting yourself on card disadvantage and losing to their other cards. LSV agrees with me ;P

Oh and thats assuming they dont have double grove, in which case extraction doesnt stop it at all
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warwizard87



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh belive me I understand its card disadvantage but iits better them the avalanche of card advantage they would gain otherwise, and extraction is a card a lot of decks are going to run anyway sideboard vs other decks its not the " perfect answer" but it is a answer that works well enough. Relic works to obv, they both are fine aginst the combo and are also good vs other decks to. I just do not see a reason to ban yet another card in a format that is really diverse already. I think modern is really healthy right now. And untill we see a real unbalanced issue I don't see a real reason to ban cards, if that's the case let's ban grapeshot becouse I can never get that deck to work but every one else can aginst me lol.
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EMA



Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 189

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So they did guess right in the end Rolling Eyes
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