The Rock (GBW) edition

MassO · Joined: 10 Mar 2006 Posts: 260

Alright so I have noticed that 75% of the metagame is aggro/creature based decks. The Control decks which are blue, blue red and blue black, have weak matchups against other control decks. Here it is:

Lands
3 [ISD] Forest (2)
4 [ISD] Isolated Chapel
4 [ISD] Woodland Cemetery
4 [M12] Sunpetal Grove
3 [ISD] Swamp (3)
2 [ISD] Plains (3)
4 [MBS] Inkmoth Nexus

// Creatures
4 [SOM] Putrefax
1 [M12] Grave Titan
4 [MBS] Viridian Emissary
2 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [NPH] Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 [NPH] Sheoldred, Whispering One

// Spells
4 [ISD] Unburial Rites
4 [ISD] Altar's Reap
4 [M12] Rampant Growth
4 [M12] Day of Judgment
4 [NPH] Despise
3 [ISD] Liliana of the Veil

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ISD] Witchbane Orb (burn/discard)
SB: 3 [ISD] Divine Reckoning (Aggro)
SB: 3 [M12] Oblivion Ring (plainswalkers)
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction (mana leaks/mages/control0
SB: 3 [NPH] Shattered Angel(wolf run)

Problems with the deck, need help with mana, usually get shorted a plains when I need to cast a DoJ. Also, I don't know if the random 3 creatures should be in this, or add more Primeval Titans and add some land?

I test 10 matches with RDW, GWtokens, URmage, and WolfRun, It won 50% of the time before sideboarding in nearly all these matchups. I was around 70% vs RDW and GWtokens and I didnt lose a sided game vs those. Wolfrun was alitte trickier but won most games 2-1. It is a good deck, but needs something else, need suggestions.

EDIT:

I took out the Gravetitan, Shelored and Elesh added One more Primeval titan, 1 plain and 1 forest.....after change, played a white red deck, player lost after back to back despise, first full game, was GWtokens, 2-0ed, 1st game built up mana allowed him to swing in got me to 6, I double played the Putrefax for the win, second game, played titan first, got oblivion ringed, I doj'ed, the played putrefax for 5, then I drew another with a Unburial rites in my hand and 10 mana on the field. Works very well.

magicman85 · Joined: 22 Aug 2009 Posts: 548

Mws has a statistics section that will tell you how many of each color mana your deck needs.

I didn't have my mws handy at the time, but you do it by clicking statistics button, then click "Color / Mana Breakdown", then click "Deep Analysis", then click "George Baxter analysis", then click "Analyze".

Lawless · Joined: 09 Oct 2008 Posts: 4

try this list out, it should solve your mana problems plus give you added attack power, my reasoning on this edited list is listed on the bottom of the decklist.

10 forest
4 inkmoth
3 isolated chapel
2 razorverge thicket
2 gavony township
2 plains
1 swamp

4 glistener elf
4 plague myr
4 solemn simulacrum
4 putefax
4 phrexian swarmlord

4 rampant growth,
4 tezzerets gambit
4 day of judgement
4 unburial rites

- First of all my land base has 12 untap green sources to have a high chance of dropping glistender elf turn 1, and more importantly, rampant growth on turn 2. although viridan emissary ramps, it is not guaranteed ramp to your 4 drop providing it doesnt die ( your opponent has no attacking creatures, or decides not to destroy it). and once they figure out your an infect deck, control decks wont destroy it unless they have to cause it is a very non threating 2 damage per turn. they are used to dealing with worse. i say if your going the infect route, just take it all the way. i took out altars reap because although you can sac viridan emissary, i say there are better 3 drop choices that are more agressive and smooth your 4 drop curve out such as tezzerets gambit, which is used in mostly all mono black infect decks. i took out despise cause the chances of you being able to play despise turn 1 is very low. and taking out liliana is an easy one beacuse a turn 2 rampant growth doesnt want a turn 3 liliana and if you miss your 2 drop, it would be very difficult casting a turn 3 liliana and a turn 4 day (just because its a great card, doesnt mean it belongs in the deck).

- To continue explaining my land base. The deck has 1/3 possible ability or 20/60 card chance of getting green sources which are 10 forest, 2 razorverge, and either rampant growth or solemn simulacrum for your second forest.

- The deck has 1/4 chance or 15/60 possible ability card chance of getting white sources which are 2 razorverge, 3 isolated chapel, 2 plains, and 4 rampant growth, 4 solemn for your plains.

- Lastly your 3rd color which is only to hard cast unburial rites ( not discarded by liliana) has a 1/5 chance. 1 swamp, 3 isolated chapel, 4 rampant growth, 4 solemn simulacrum, for your singleton swamp.

- put 2 gavony township and 4 inkmoth nexus as well. my reasoning behind gavony township should be self explanitory. your putting pressure with a recurring trampling infect big body source plus glistenr elf, plague myr, and inkmoth nexus. Your opponent, all draws being equal, is going to be taking infect damage. swarmlord comes out and you pump the tokens plus creatures in play. This land alone is so powerful that gavony basically makes the green white token deck possible.

Try this main deck out and record how many times it wins on the play and draw of matches game 1 and reply when you get a chance. im off to go eat but the best of luck and hope to talk to you soon.

MassO · Joined: 10 Mar 2006 Posts: 260

Lawless, I appreciate your advise on this new deck, but I was going for a control deck. I wanted the deck to build mana while the other player is building their army, DoJ when the army gets too big and then putrefax them to death, two swings should do the trick, and with Unburial rights, 1 putrefax gets 3 attempts to get through.

Your deck is an aggro infect deck that is more mid range than aggro,which dies to aggro and control, You have no way of controlling the board and a control deck is just going to play with you until you have no cards in hand and then kill you.

Oh and thanks magicman85, I actually didn't know that.

Also, update: Played Bantpod, 2-0 again, second game sided in the Ob rings, took out their Elesh and ob ringed, until I attacked with 3 inkmonth and a putrefax...

MassO · Joined: 10 Mar 2006 Posts: 260

sc4rs · Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 731

This is the build I've been working with with the exact same idea in mind.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
7 [PT] Forest (3)
1 [5E] Plains (4)
7 [BRB] Swamp (1)
2 [ISD] Isolated Chapel
2 [SOM] Razorverge Thicket
4 [ISD] Woodland Cemetery

// Creatures
1 [ISD] Moldgraf Monstrosity
2 [M12] Grave Titan
1 [NPH] Sheoldred, Whispering One
4 [ISD] Bloodgift Demon
4 [M12] Birds of Paradise

// Spells
1 [ISD] Tribute to Hunger
1 [M12] Doom Blade
2 [ISD] Victim of Night
2 [NPH] Dismember
3 [M10] Rampant Growth
4 [ISD] Liliana of the Veil
4 [ISD] Army of the Damned
4 [ISD] Unburial Rites
4 [ISD] Mulch

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [M12] Doom Blade
SB: 4 [NPH] Batterskull
SB: 3 [ISD] Ghost Quarter
SB: 4 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 2 [MBS] Go for the Throat

I've had a lot of success with ramping into Demon early, and Mulch is exceptional at getting gas into the graveyard. Moldgraf Monstrosity is one of the few reanimation targets in Standard that doesn't really care if it dies, and there are usually a few Demons or another reanimation target in the graveyard by the time you hit one. I found that running more white than just for flashback really screwed with the manabase, so I've stuck with just splashing off Birds and a few lands for flashback on Unburial Rites.

MassO · Joined: 10 Mar 2006 Posts: 260

sc4rs, I like the style of your deck, I actually made this type deck with splashing the white for the flashback, but I found that mulch, will actually lose you games because you can't control what actually goes into the graveyard, which hurts. You have Damned in your deck which helps mulch in this deck, but it costs way to much to be effective.

You are also relying on creatures to provide mana ramp, but what happens when you are at the losing end of a DoJ?

sc4rs · Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 731

MassO · Joined: 10 Mar 2006 Posts: 260

Sc4rs, it is surprisingly consistent, first 3/4 turns, I am playing land, rampant grown, and viridian, when 4-6th turns comes around I usually drop a DoJ against aggro, against control, I play threat after threat, to get the counters out of the way, with the Unburials I get 3 putrfax for each one and they usually run out of answers and then infect land will take over the infect damage. I have even waited for them to tap out and cast 2 putrefax's at the same time for the win.

Sharpeihead · Joined: 16 Nov 2011 Posts: 1

Silly question........ What do either of your decks do against someone who maindecks surgical extraction? I can see a control deck stealing a first game with it, then siding in a third and forth to crush ya'll bad with snapcasters...... test it I think I'm right. Oh btw I will be posting a deck soon built around SE and snapcaster that I have won two FNM in a row with.

MassO · Joined: 10 Mar 2006 Posts: 260

There is alot I can do against extraction. As I have 3 in the board myself, I could get rid of both the mage and your extraction. If I am worried about running out of threats then I side in the angels. You forget that I have the Inkmoths. You also forget that your deck is not Tier One or even 2 at this point. So, it is not even going to be in 90% of the meta, 90% of the meta is Aggro, which your UB cannot really handle. If I am in a real life tourney and play 1 UB the entire way, then I am 7-1 and on my way to day two where I have to face majority Aggro again. I will take the small percent chance that I will get paired to UB on the second day.

Also, Most UB players don't even play SE, for the fact that their hardest matchups are aggro, so they put many ways of getting rid of the flood of creatures. UB is great against control, midrange decks but with the type of deck that is throwing a threat every turn starting turn 4/5, it is hard for them to keep up.

Lawless · Joined: 09 Oct 2008 Posts: 4

this is a risky version if they are running ghost quarters and hit your plains, but if they arent then your pretty much safe.

its also risky in that its running 20 lands, so basically your hoping to hit at least 2 lands in your hand and a mycosynth wellspring or draw in to lands or wellsprings.

im runing this for a prolifearte mechanic because you said you had problems against control.

the deck also isnt running inkmoths, in this case because you arent going to be pumping the inkmoth with a lashwrithe or gavony township, its better to safely proliferate opponent to death after he gets a counter off virulent wound or your first putrefax or skitterix attack.

basically if they figure out your land base and a mycosynth wellspring does not resolve, when your playing control your in trouble. Yet, if they attempt to just counter the big stuff, lux cannon, skitterx, putrefax, and unburial rites you should do ok.

The problem i see is when confronting ramp decks. Not aggro in control. because the deck is not running any ramp itself and cannot counter, your side will probobly need stuff against the ramp deck.

This version of the deck is also considerably weak against dismember. because your creatures are big, and costly. you should be able to hold off agro decks for a while but if they got more than dismembers or 2 with snapcasters, you probobly need a side against that as well, cards like surgical extraction, and despise against ramp now that the mana base supports it.

Overall it was a great idea to add unburial rites with putrefax and even though in my list everything is a 4 of and not tweaked, ill tweak it once i figure out how it can work and get back to you, heres the list.

12 swamp
4 woodland cementary
2 forest
1 plains
1 phrexias core

4 putrefax
4 skithirx, the blight dragon

4 liliana of the veil
4 virulent wound
4 throne of geth
4 ichor wellspring
4 mycosynth wellspring
4 lux cannon
4 black sun zenith
4 unburial rites

let me know what you think, talk to you later

Engrishskill · Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 1152

I don't really have anything to say about the decks, but your at attempt at explaining the metagame is...disconcerting.

The bit about control decks is what gives me pause, in particular.

The reason being is that "rock" is indicative of attacking a metagame.
With respect to attacking a metagame; if someone doesn't have a passable understanding, their deckbuilding is going suffer.

Would you be impressed with a doctor who prescribes something after making it patently clear he has no idea what you have?

Yeah...you are probably going to call him a dunce and go elsewhere.
Luckily, mtg isn't as serious bidness as a G.P., but either way you lost a lot of credibility before putrefax.

Removal that is being played right now is generally quite flexible and the reason is creatures all pretty much are either:

•doing something good fast, which generates advantage by speed alone
•generates an advantage as soon as it resolves on its own.
•if they are in play, it means your control opponent's slowroll went off and if you can't do something good [AND kill it] in pretty rapid succession, you should be checking the time left in the round and consult your sideboard.

So, why does 'Fax suck? You might be able to completely connect sometimes, but either way it is a horribly inefficient card that costs five and wastes your fifth turn, which means if you are on the play, you just let tiago+dissipate come online.

Without a doubt, your idealized scenarios involve sticking a Lil quickly. From what I can see, any deck with blue will probably be able to hang onto cards better than you. Real creature decks will establish a board presence more quickly than you.
Meanwhile, you're casting altar reap...

There's an mws testing "network" thread stickied- I haven't looked at it in a while, but there were some guys who posted on it who are going to be lightyears better testing partners than randoms on the mws server(s). It may feel nice to win with your brew, but I promise you that brewing/tuning/etc with capable partners will lead to being able to beat good players on here or, better yet(!); physical tournaments with tickets and purses to reward your efforts.

You can easily apply the above's logic to using statistics. If you have immaculate stats, it is still going to leave you with ptqscrub-status nightmares if you have built your deck based on the results of playing against mws randoms.

I know some of that was of a facetious tone, but I don't mean any insult by it...it's just the sense of humor that I am stuck with.
I've been playing a while and, as my ramblings should suggest; lessons came at the cost of a registration fee and lots of hyper-competitive nerd pride...not to mention phenominal blows to my rating(the old systems, obviously).

Free advice should never be taken with offence if you ask me.

MassO · Joined: 10 Mar 2006 Posts: 260

Engrishskill,

This is not the first time you have insulted a player and their post while simply not contributing any "advice" to what they have posted or their deck. There is so much wrong with your "advice" that you might want to crawl under that proverbial rock you kept mentioning.

Yes, the "rock" deck is to take advantage of the current metagame, which currently has according to mtgsalvation.com and brainburst.com, over 70% as aggro creature decks. Only 3 prominent control decks use blue, they are in order of use: U/B control, MonoBlue Delver, and UR Delver. Under 2% of the meta is UW control, however there is alot of U/W aggro creature decks.

Putrefax is usually online at turn 4 not turn 5. And against creature decks the "fax" is following behind a DoJ. Most creature decks lack the retooling of a Lead the Stampede or any card draw whatsoever, therefore "fax" generally hits for 5 or at least 4 after the DoJ. With the Titans, by turn 6/7, I'm cleaning up with multiple Inkmoths.

This scenario has happened a lot as well: I DoJ, they play one creature and then I play Liliana and cast Unburial (either out of the grave or hand), to get the putrefax online. Also, early game, I pick the planeswalker/creatures that will get played with the amount of mana they will have, if they have one mana on the board and one mana in hand im getting rid of the 3cc or below if possible, which gives me more time and an open board come turn 4 to swing in with putrefax.

I have played against nearly every top deck that is posted in ML's site with ISD and even top decks from mtgo. I agree that the Blue control decks are the hardest to deal with, however after SB it is a coin flip and I would rather have a 80% win percentage vs 80% of the field than a 50% win percentage against 100% of the field. I don't like the coin flip matchups, and to see the face of people when I double cast Putrefax for the win after DoJ'ing is the best. That happened 3 times this past FNM.

Engrishskill, just get over yourself. Just because a deck is not mainstream doesn't mean it is not a good deck. How can you comment on something you never even attempted to playtest. It is sad that you do not have deckbuilding skills of your own so you would rather ignorantly discredit others work and skills. If you want to pretend to give advice, write it on a piece of paper and then throw it away, it will be greatly appreciated by the fellow members of Magic-League.

Jacois · Joined: 05 Sep 2004 Posts: 1155