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Mono Black Control


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Ffancrzy
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:58 am    Post subject: Mono Black Control Reply with quote

Hey guys, I've been messing with this deck for a little, and I'd like some outside advice on improving it. The deck is Mono Black Control and it's an archetype that I have a real reason to believe can be good in the current standard environment.

Thoughts behind building the deck.:
So I admit that I am a bit of a rogue deck builder. What I really like doing when building a deck is finding certain cards or strategies that target the popular decks in the format, while at the same time having a consistent deck and gameplan against 2 things, Random Stuff, and aggro. What this means is I play specific answers to the most popular decks, while also having more general answers for aggro, such as mass removal.

Since Caw Sword/Caw Go/UW/That deck with Stoneforge Mystic, Jace, and Squadron Hawks is the most recent PT winner, and an innovative deck, and Valakut is one of the most consistent decks in the format, I wanted specific answers to both of these decks. This meant I wanted to play 2 specific cards.

Inquisition of Kozalek and Tectonic Edge.

These 2 cards are really good vs both decks, though obviously they are best against 1 or the other.

Inquisition of Kozalek
: I have always found this card to be interesting, in certain formats, this is just a Thoughtseize that you don't lose life to. While it isn't quite that, it is fairly close in the current environment.

This card is very very good against Caw Blade. Lets look at what it can hit.

Squadron Hawk: A huge source of card advantage for this deck. If you hit their opening Hawk, it can completely blank their hand if they were relying on it to fill up an otherwise mediocre hand.

Stoneforge Mystic: Probably the best card in standard right now, this card can hit some devastating targets, and Sword of Feast and Famine is the prime target. By hitting this card, Caw Blade puts you on a clock, gains card advantage, and never has to tap out. The good thing here is, even if they cast Stoneforge, sometimes you can rip the Inquisition, and rob them of their Sword after, leaving them with a bad bad 1/2 creature in play.

Mana Leak, Spell Pierce, Stoic Rebuttal, Deprive.

Even if you miss their business, you can still hit a counterspell. This paves the way for your later game, and assures you can at least resolve some of your own business.

Against Valakut, it is slightly less overwhelming, but can still hit the likes of their ramp spells, and Green Sun's Zenith. Not great, but still a usefull spell.

The other card is Tectonic Edge. The applications for this card need no introduction. It hits Manlands, it hits Dual Lands, it hits the best land in standard. Valakut. Killing these things is very powerful, and being a mono-colored deck, I can afford to run 4 without reprieve.


The Rest:

Before I continue here is the full list:

// Lands
4 [WWK] Tectonic Edge
2 [WWK] Dread Statuary
19 [ROE] Swamp (2)

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Vampire Nighthawk
3 [M11] Grave Titan
1 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine

// Spells
4 [ZEN] Disfigure
4 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
1 [M11] Liliana Vess
1 [ZEN] Sorin Markov
4 [M11] Sign in Blood
4 [MBS] Go for the Throat
3 [WWK] Everflowing Chalice
2 [ZEN] Mind Sludge
3 [MBS] Black Sun's Zenith
1 [M11] Duress

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [ROE] Contaminated Ground
SB: 3 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb
SB: 3 [SOM] Memoricide
SB: 1 [M11] Duress
SB: 4 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker

Some card choices:

Vampire Nighthawk: This card has slowly become the best card in the deck. I'm almost never upset to see it, especially in multiples. Against aggro, especially all of the swarm builds, it kills most everything. Not only that, but it allows you to offset the swarm with lifelink in a few turns. Its also removal against their best creature, while also gaining some life. It also kills hawks like no one's business. The lifegain can also offset Sign in Blood's cost.

1 Liliana, 1 Sorin: Being control without planeswalkers is not very good. However Blacks PWs have not been tier 1. Liliana doesn't effect the board when it hits, and Sorin costs a TON. 1, and 1 has seemed the right numbers. I hit them occasionally, never draw 2 of the same one, and they let me gain incremental advantage. I don't think I'd change this without great reason.

1 Wurmcoil. This is more of an experiment. Against Aggro its about as good as Grave Titan, gaining you life and getting you back into it and it also doesn't get hit by the best removal in the format, Go for the Throat. I am fine with the 1/3 split with Grave Titan for now, and will continue to experiment.

1 Duress, 1 Side: The 5th and 6th Inquisitions

2 Mind Sludge: I have long said the only reason you'd play Vampires (especially M10 Vamps) was to play this card. If it resolves it is hard pressed to lose (though I've managed it). That said with Mana Leak in the format, its not nearly as good, which is why there are only 2 in the deck.

Sideboard:

Contaminated Ground is my Spreding Seas
Revoker is for PWers and Swords!
Ratchet Bomb is great against tokens and aggro


Cards I'm unsure of:

Mind Sludge: I'm running this card on principal, however, with all the decks either dumping their hand, or having counterspells, I'm suspicious of how often it will be good

Dread Statuary: I think this card itself is fine, the thing that makes me wonder is the fact that it turns on your opponents tech edges, with is actually really horrible since you want to get to 6 mana. I love attacking with it, but Tech Edge makes me doubt its inclusion.

Memoricide: I don't like this card, when I cast it, it feels like a big do nothing. I kinda want to put something else here, but feel I need this.

In?:
One card I'd like to put in somewhere is Vampire Hexmage. I think it would compliment Revokers very well, while being serviceable vs Aggro with First Strike.

I'd also consider adding a few more duress somewhere.

Problem Cards:
Jace the Mindsculptor. This is the 1 card I wish inquisition would hit. This is the reason I want Hexmage as it hurts my game severely.

I'll edit in more later, right now, I'm tired, but any and all suggestions, comments or concerns are welcome.

Ffancrzy
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ozmosis



Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

for memoricide.. b/c you don't like it and b/c you are mono black I would definitely replace those spots with sadistic sacrement. You don't have to guesse and you can pic apart the 1 of bombs which there are alot of. like caw go has one of each of those equip and 1-2 jura. A timely sacrement even unkicked could severely cripple them vs memoricide.
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Brucehendrix



Joined: 08 Sep 2010
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:31 am    Post subject: hexmages? Reply with quote

You need hexmages!!! What are you gonna do vs a resolved jace tms?

I piloted similar MBC at a couple of events... it pwns most creature based decks, but the archenemy really is caw-blade. If they ever stick a sword to something... u better have that black sun's zenith in hand, cuz it is the only answer...

I moved to a BR build with artifact hate and Abyssal Persecutors instead, works better in current meta imo, but Im far from pro
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GoneBananas
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

in mbc you need to make room for mimic vat. It turns all your opponents dudes onto your side i hear its ok with titans Smile
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Ninja87



Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you sooo need Brittle Effigy.. stuff with pro blacks gonna own you soo bad if ratchet bombs can't reach them in time..

Gatekeeper of Malakir is sooo good too.. MonoBlacks should never miss this vampire..

and yea.. mimic vat would be fun.. ^^
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grim Discovery is good in the main deck. You get back a dude and your Tectonic Edge. It's good in almost every match.
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ozmosis



Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

definately 1-2 mimic vat. Make sure you have some powerful arts like I would ditch disfigure b/cs you have enough removal thats massive and it only plays early. 2 ratchet main instead and 1-2 vat maybe. I would play grim discovery as a one of as well. cut a grave titan for abysmal or something. and maybe add 1-2 consume vapour. I think thats a really useful card although might be better in side only. 4disfugure main i dislike. It will be useless late game and useless vs control. and sacrifce stuff like for example the gatekeeper gets around pro black siding so its good too.
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JeZeus



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 225

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4 disfigure main seems alot, I only use 2 personally. Its a great card vs Boros and Kuldotha in particular though.
Mimic vat does give you more game vs control, valakut, and midrange creature decks. Asides from that I've been enjoying Fume spitter over Nighthawks, plus you need some hexmage's in there. Fume Spitter and Hexmage have nice synergy with Vat as well.
Chalice is kind of a waste on this deck.. I can see it if you are using Persecutor but other then that what is the point??? You get a turn 5 titan?? Doesn't really mean much if you don't have some semblance of board control, and you won't even be able to resolve it vs U/w or U/b most of the time anyhow.
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ozmosis



Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i would definately play more duress than 1. Its a great card to take away bombs. and grim discovery i think would be a great one of if you can find a slot for it. You don't want to many or its just saturating your deck but if you have one I can never see you drawing it and being unhappy.
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Lynolf



Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 546

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the current metagame, Doom Blade is probably better than Go for the Throat. You also have way too much creature destruction. Consider Ratchet Bomb and/or Vampire Hexmage to deal with other permanents. Nantuko Shade could be worth trying out too. Mr. Green
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Ninja87



Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lynolf wrote:
In the current metagame, Doom Blade is probably better than Go for the Throat. You also have way too much creature destruction. Consider Ratchet Bomb and/or Vampire Hexmage to deal with other permanents. Nantuko Shade could be worth trying out too. Mr. Green


OMG!! I totally forgot about Nantuko Shade! It was such a bomb back when it was in Torment and now it's back and it hasn't seen play?! That's sad..
And so yea.. You should soo try Nantuko Shade and bring it's glory days back..
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Kermore



Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [WWK] Tectonic Edge
16 [M11] Swamp (4)

// Creatures
2 [M11] Grave Titan
2 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
3 [MBS] Phyrexian Rager
3 [ZEN] Vampire Nighthawk

// Spells
1 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
2 [M11] Corrupt
3 [M11] Duress
2 [MBS] Black Sun's Zenith
1 [ZEN] Sorin Markov
3 [M11] Sign in Blood
4 [WWK] Everflowing Chalice
2 [ROE] Consuming Vapors
2 [M11] Doom Blade
3 [MBS] Go for the Throat
1 [SOM] Mimic Vat
2 [ZEN] Mind Sludge

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
SB: 2 [SOM] Mimic Vat
SB: 3 [ROE] Contaminated Ground
SB: 2 [SOM] Memoricide
SB: 2 [ZEN] Sadistic Sacrament
SB: 2 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb
SB: 2 [ZEN] Vampire Hexmage



this is a list I have been toying with for a bit. I found that Duress has been more vital then Inquistion of Kozilek due to being able to get rid of jace. Mimic vat has been a awesome SB against titans. Memoricide and Sadistic Sac and 4 tectonic makes the ValaRamp a better match up.

Doom blade has been better then Go for the throat due to everyone playing Artifact Creatures like inkmoth/Wurm,
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Ninja87



Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nantuko Shade anyone? =(
I'd really like someone to try to test it..
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CrushU
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nirkana Revanant > Nantuko Shade, I believe. More expensive, but you're a control deck anyway, you have time.

For the love of god where are the gatekeepers?

I remain unimpressed by mind sludge. Every so often it really does effect magic on an enemy's hand, and is very valuable against control, but more often than not I'm using it and getting a couple of lands out of my opp's hand. I'd ALMOST prefer a Horrifying Revelations at that point, holding onto it until after Jace storms and then smacking their topdeck away. (Sludging their hand is pretty good at this point, except they're practically guaranteed to counter it).

My biggest question, though, is How to deal with Artifacts/Enchantments? I'm pretty close to just trying Lux Cannon or Spine of Ish Sah to see if it works for killing them.
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Ffancrzy
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, here is an updated list with some suggestions in the thread. I'm surprised at all the attention I got over my work day, it's great!

Just some notes:

Nantuko Shade: I don't think this card is what the deck wants to do, it really doesn't help the aggro matchup, and it simply makes your opponent's early oust's or GFTTs live vs control, while not having the upside that nighthawk does of acting as lifegain, a clock, removal, and a PWer deterrent.

Gatekeeper/Consuming Vapors: The most common aggro decks are rush based, Tempered Steel, Kudoltha Red, Elves. And even the control decks have things like squadron hawk, and stoneforge mystic, not ideal for either of these cards. When I first was building the deck, I had Gatekeeper, but I realized how much better Nighthawk is, and made the switch, since against Aggro it blocks and gains back some life that the other tokens hit your for and helps you get into it much faster. Pro Black is a bit of a hassle, but its something I'll have to deal with using BSZ X3.

Vampire Hexmage: This greatly helps vs Jace (so I assume) and I'm glad I fit it into the main deck, as I wanted them somewhere. Post Board, I have revokers for my useless removal giving me 8 answers to PWers that all attack for 2. It is also a fine man vs aggro

Mimic Vat:
I think 2-3 is the correct number on this card, and it will give me another axis to attack control decks on since I'll be able to generate some additional C/A, even if I'm just shooting out Hexmages.

Duress:
I needed MOAR in the deck, gives me more answers to Jace. Also vs Non-Caw Go control, I can swap 2 in for my inqusitions.

Removal:
Took out 2 disfigures since I think 2 will be fine, also split up my Doom Blade/GFTT count to 2/2 which is fine I believe.

Everflowing Challice: Was kind of a do-nothing, the main purpose was for turn 3 BSZ for 2 which was nice. May add 1 or 2 back in the future.

New Decklist:


// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [WWK] Tectonic Edge
2 [WWK] Dread Statuary
19 [ROE] Swamp (2)

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Vampire Nighthawk
3 [M11] Grave Titan
1 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
4 [ZEN] Vampire Hexmage

// Spells
2 [ZEN] Disfigure
4 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
3 [M11] Sign in Blood
2 [MBS] Go for the Throat
3 [MBS] Black Sun's Zenith
2 [M11] Duress
2 [SOM] Mimic Vat
2 [M10] Doom Blade
1 [ZEN] Sorin Markov
1 [ZEN] Mind Sludge
1 [M11] Liliana Vess

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [M11] Duress
SB: 4 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb
SB: 4 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 [SOM] Memoricide
SB: 3 [ROE] Contaminated Ground
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