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Myr Battlesphere + Twisted Image



 
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Farseer
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apply P/T switching effects after all other effects that modify P/T.

It starts as a 4/7.

It becomes 7/4 after twisted image resolves.
(4/7 basic; then apply P/T switch)

Then it becomes 7/8 after the +4/+0 effect resolves.
(4/7 basic; then +4/+0 makes it 8/7; then apply P/T switch)
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Jacois



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1201

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a rules guru, but that answer seems wrong to me. I seem to remember old p/t switching cards having additional rules text saying that anything that would effect power effects toughness instead, but Twisted Image doesn't have that. I would think it would become 7/4 than gain the +4 making it 11/4.

Has there been a change in the rules that implies future p/t changing effects to do the opposite now? Cause that just seems wonky.
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pascal3000
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jacois wrote:
I'm not a rules guru, but that answer seems wrong to me. I seem to remember old p/t switching cards having additional rules text saying that anything that would effect power effects toughness instead, but Twisted Image doesn't have that. I would think it would become 7/4 than gain the +4 making it 11/4.

Has there been a change in the rules that implies future p/t changing effects to do the opposite now? Cause that just seems wonky.


Those additional parts of text are not part of the oracle text on any of the old cards. Its just a leftover part from back when their wordings were less accurate.

Its just an additional part that describes the exact same thing that happens nowadays as a result of the layer system. The answer Farseer gave is correct.
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Farseer
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
613.3. Within layer 7, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the order described below. Within each sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order. (See rule 613.6.) Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a sublayer. (See rule 613.7.)

613.3a Layer 7a: Effects from characteristic-defining abilities are applied. See rule 604.3.

613.3b Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied.

613.3c Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don’t set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value) are applied.

613.3d Layer 7d: Power and/or toughness changes from counters are applied. See rule 121, “Counters.”

613.3e Layer 7e: Effects that switch a creature’s power and toughness are applied. Such effects take the value of power and apply it to the creature’s toughness, and take the value of toughness and apply it to the creature’s power.
Example: A 1/3 creature is given +0/+1 by an effect. Then another effect switches the creature’s power and toughness. Its new power and toughness is 4/1. A new effect gives the creature +5/+0. Its “unswitched” power and toughness would be 6/4, so its actual power and toughness is 4/6.
Example: A 1/3 creature is given +0/+1 by an effect. Then another effect switches the creature’s power and toughness. Its new power and toughness is 4/1. If the +0/+1 effect ends before the switch effect ends, the creature becomes 3/1.


Rules extract for reference; wasn't able to post it earlier.

The examples listed are also quite helpful.
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Conkisstador



Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 543

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When calculating P/T, no matter what order spells resolve or whatnot, swapping Power with Toughness is always applied last.
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