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Deck for PT Paris


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KeySam



Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 649

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:32 am    Post subject: Deck for PT Paris Reply with quote

I am still in need for a t2 deck for pt Paris. I actually build and tested a fair amout of decks but i didnt found anything i like. I hope maybe you guys can give me something good. Just a few things.

I tested the Kuldutha Rebirth deck even with incomplete spoilers and its pretty vounarable and a little inconsisten so that deck is out.

Right now i am pretty mutch set on Valakuth but i dislike that the deck just beats itself a fair amount of the time. Maybe some of you guys have ideas.

Control is another thing, i would like to play a good control list, but i keep seeing problems that are hard to solve. Maybe i am just on the Wrong track there.

I also thought about shape anew but i think its a fairly bad metagame for the deck, alot of people will play maindeck or sideboard Threaten effects so getting a 1 turn kill is actually pretty bad in that regard. And Jace is also a onboard solution(i know you play your own jaces but that means your at a 3 card combo if a player has a jace in play). And against UW its almost harder, their removal actually kills your Collosus. So that deck is out too.

So if any of you have ideas, i am realy open to suggestions.

KeySam
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Weedmonkey



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 324

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue I see with running Valakut is that more often than not the mirror comes down to a draw-off when both players are competent pilots. Although it's got a decent spread of matchups in the metagame, I really, really dislike the idea of not having the ability to outplay my opponent.

Regarding control, what problems haven't you been able to solve? Working on a UB proliferate control build myself I understand there are always some problems that need solving (such as how to beat Valakut), but I'm not sure what you're finding difficult about it.
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Duodax



Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 390

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But will there be mirrors if ML forms the metagame and there was 0 VAlakut decks in last master's top Eight? My suggestion is that 4 Pyroclasm Maindeck will crush 50% of the piles and with a good board you will win vs. the crappy rest too. Of course I will not give any further advice on how to construct this kind of sideboard because the thread creator is competent enough to build one for himself. One last note: 28 lands in a pile still suck heavily...
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moscowdemon
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keysam, from elfman to elfman... play elves lol
lead the stampede seems intense and amazing for the deck. if not, try some form of pyromancer ascension. ive been working with it since rotation and it does well when played well. with the new set u gain the red zenith and/or blue zenith. also u can have access to the blue tutor which im sure is nice in the deck, i just havent tried out the new set yet. playing kiln fiend in the deck has helped alot also.
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Duodax



Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 390

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asc. will bust to many discard spells and Elves will bust to Cunning Donk and Pyroclasm and the new Flamebreak. No thanks don't talk people into crappy decks PLEASE!

When a person is asking for advice, destructive criticism and insults are not what you give. People are trying to be constructive and help a person on this thread. While it's fine to attack arguments and present your own points, do it with a little maturity.

This is a warning.
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moscowdemon
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, ill just be duodax and not try to innovate in a new format...
/robot voice
must play ub control. cannot play valakut because of counterspells. cannot play anything because of counterspells. playing cards that have answers are bad /end robot voice
to be brutally honest, how much discard do u see around? definately not enough to warrant pyromancer ascension not useful...
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Duodax



Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 390

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No Ponder means Asc. is not playable. Innovation in a such shitty game like Magic has evolved into actually sucks. UB is a pile by the way it only wins because 99 percent of MtG players are really noobish at this game plus it can lucksack like hell like Valakut can do too. So Valakut is the best deck if build correctly and played well and your luckfairy does not cheat on you because she propably will if you play a pile with 28 lands and 4 Summoning Traps.
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moscowdemon
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

but valakut loses to itself... and if u build any deck well it can do well. who ever said that innovation was bad? need i remind u of keysams combo elves from a few yrs back? and preordain seems fine over ponder now. your not combo anymore, u play more of a control/burn plan. you just play well and you do well. since its for a PT, do u expect many of them to have piles? this by no means is to down keysam, but what makes him so much better than any other pro playing there? im very sure if people actually took into account the rogue type decks, it would be much better. conley does pretty well for himself most times, whos to say keysam cant do the same? ub seems like a pile but yet had an outstanding showing at worlds. its not fair at all to rule out a deck because of one decks answers. pyroclasm seems to be a valakut only card, im sure u can get around it when it comes to it. and the discard u mentioned earlier still hasnt been shown... since UB is a pile, wouldnt that make its inquisition + duress package totally useless? its a pile u said.
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KeySam



Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 649

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Control, i feel like there are so many problems you have to face right now and while you can answer each you cant answer all and i dont feel confortable to tweak a control deck that good and still be good in the mirror.
Examples of Problems(some cards represent stratgies):
Koth
Thrun
Valakut
Stinpest
Jace
Vengevine
...
You need to have answer to the right cards and i am not sure i know what people are thinking is good enough.

To Valakuth, yea my valakuth list already had 3 sweepers main, it still feels a little inconsitent(maybe i got just unlucky, didnt play that many games with valakuth) and i hate keeping hands with ramp and nothing and i hate mulliganing with this deck(because you can easily draw 1 half of the deck), at least green suns zenith helps.

Ascension, i dont like ascencion alot because whikle not a hell lot of people will win if you go turn 2 ascension you dont always have it and kiln fiend(already tested that) just makes their removal go live which isnt good maindeck. And discard is actually played in ub.

Elves, i am torn on elves but its defenatly a thing i thought about, black suns zenith screws you over though, but the rest of the mass removal you actually have answers to. And Lead the Stampede also helps aton against mass removal. Maybe ill test it again but i felt like falling short against valakut.

THanks for all the answers
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moscowdemon
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keysam, im sure whatever u choose u will do well with as long as u devote as much time to it as u can.
best of luck at the PT
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Duodax



Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 390

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Show me your list somehow please; I do not play MtG anymore anyway. For example you could give me a xup.in link or something like that. Must see how you made room for this zenith which actually cannot search out eldrazis.

Combo Elves was so obvious; if it was not; nobody except KeySam would have played it on the PT. In contrast, the new T2 is not obvious.
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moscowdemon
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duodax wrote:
I do not play MtG anymore anyway.

im pretty sure that ruins ur points... at least for me it does. even if u quit recently, it kind of ruins ur senses. but in all attempts to end this thread now that its turning into "(user) must be right and (other user) must be wrong", we will have to wait and see. its all up for keysams decision in the end anyways.
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Weedmonkey



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 324

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to throw an idea out there to help, I've been working on:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [SOM] Darkslick Shores
4 [M11] Drowned Catacomb
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
8 [UNH] Island
4 [ZEN] Swamp (3)
4 [WWK] Tectonic Edge

// Creatures
3 [SOM] Trinket Mage
3 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine

// Spells
3 [M11] Jace Beleren
1 [SOM] Contagion Engine
2 [SOM] Lux Cannon
4 [SOM] Contagion Clasp
3 [WWK] Everflowing Chalice
3 [MBS] Black Sun's Zenith
4 [MBS] Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 [M11] Preordain
1 [M11] Elixir of Immortality
1 [M11] Brittle Effigy
2 [MBS] Go for the Throat

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [M11] Jace Beleren
SB: 1 [SOM] Contagion Engine
SB: 1 [SOM] Lux Cannon
SB: 1 [MBS] Black Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 [MBS] Go for the Throat
SB: 2 [SOM] Memoricide
SB: 4 [M11] Flashfreeze
SB: 4 [ZEN] Spreading Seas

A few notes:

- I found Jace TMS to be underwhelming, which is why I've pulled it from this version of the deck. Jace Beleren smooths out your curve (instead of hitting a glut of 4cc spells), helps towards ensuring you're hitting your fourth mana source and you can still get card advantage from it.

- Lux Cannon I've found to be a great option to combat control decks if it's allowed to stick around as they have no way of dealing with it.

- Takling specifically about the above list, I found by far the most difficult matchup to be Valakut because of how dependent you are on hitting a few key cards that you can't tutor/search for. I still haven't found the right SB setup to tackle valakut (I'm only really happy with the Spreading Seas at the moment), but I think it can become a less awful matchup.

While the above list is still very much a work in progress in regards to SB and card numbers (such as whether 3 or 4 chalice is correct), hopefully you can pull some sort of insight from the list for what you do decide to run Smile
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AkYo



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 259

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eat sleep and breathe Type 2 :]
Shape Anew Combo is something to recognize make sure you can answer or possibly run it.
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JKilla



Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

play eldrazi ramp, beats control, not bad against valakut with all the tectonic edges, and is good vs the random aggro decks since u have a lot of lifegain md and post board.
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