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Old sets (melancholy + an idea)



 
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san



Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:50 am    Post subject: Old sets (melancholy + an idea) Reply with quote

This is an afterthought over a comment i read saying "fow is the only useful alliances card"...

I think this kind of ideas can come from looking at older sets through the light of today's magic. Today the game is (in standard) mostly about powerful creatures. I think this is a general trend in the last years, which can be exemplified looking at baneslayer angel+cancel (now) vs counterspell+serra (then). Simple: Downgrade the counter, upgrade the creature. Sure, modern sets are more balanced than those of my favourite era (from ice age to exodus, as urza got too out of control), as nobody will do something like, say, necropotence today.
Even if necropotence was heavily skill-intensive...

so, going straight to the idea... Won't it be possible to organize tournaments in formats involving older sets? I mean, older standard or older extended. Is there anybody interested? I'd organize them myself, but sadly I cannot as I'm not a judge.
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Miqo



Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:55 am    Post subject: ^^ Reply with quote

Great idea, I support this concept 100% Very Happy. The problem with playing older cards in MYOS, BYOB and the such is that the old (post-5th) creatures and manabases just don't cut it against the new stuff. Sad

I can't run minis myself due to not knowing the rules well enough to be a judge, but I'm regardless of that giving my support, just to indicate there are people out there who would play the old formats.
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Tao



Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 864

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

random format trials. bring your own standard.
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Alandariel



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 217

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonproject wrote:
random format trials. bring your own standard.


Did you even read the post above yours? Go away...
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Tao



Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 864

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah. People play old sets all the time in those formats. This is just old players whining.
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san



Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, is not whining.

I think it was a game with less luck on it. Why?

Well, imagine you are nowadays in an even match. Both are empty handed, board is cleared except for lands, both are at 20 lives. Decks play no spot removal (which was as good then -STP- as now -Path to exile-).

Someone topdecks a Baneslayer Angel. In 4 turns, it hit 20, got 20 lives and unless the other topdecks a 5-power flying first striker or a 5/6 reach or so (!) canīt stop the angel. The other deck can do 9 damages a turn and still not win.

For the same mana, before you got a Serra. In 4 turns, it hit 16, got 0 lives, and could be killed by just another 4 power flier. The other deck can do 5 damages a turn and win.

Another example: a 2drop beast snekas in before. You have, normally, 10 turns to stop it (say its a black knigt or a soltari priest or something). Now think of nowadays legacy. A tarmogoyf slips in. Usually you have less than half those turns to stop it.

Smile
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Alandariel



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 217

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonproject wrote:
Yeah. People play old sets all the time in those formats. This is just old players whining.


Obviously you didn't. You didn't even read my post.

Miqu wrote:
The problem with playing older cards in MYOS, BYOB and the such is that the old (post-5th) creatures and manabases just don't cut it against the new stuff. Sad


Again, go away...
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Tao



Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 864

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alandariel wrote:
jonproject wrote:
Yeah. People play old sets all the time in those formats. This is just old players whining.


Obviously you didn't. You didn't even read my post.

Miqu wrote:
The problem with playing older cards in MYOS, BYOB and the such is that the old (post-5th) creatures and manabases just don't cut it against the new stuff. Sad


Again, go away...


Yeah. I did read it. You play older sets for their strong cards, and newer sets balance that out with mana bases, which is painfully obvious to everyone else.


san wrote:
No, is not whining.

I think it was a game with less luck on it. Why?

Well, imagine you are nowadays in an even match. Both are empty handed, board is cleared except for lands, both are at 20 lives. Decks play no spot removal (which was as good then -STP- as now -Path to exile-).

Someone topdecks a Baneslayer Angel. In 4 turns, it hit 20, got 20 lives and unless the other topdecks a 5-power flying first striker or a 5/6 reach or so (!) canīt stop the angel. The other deck can do 9 damages a turn and still not win.

For the same mana, before you got a Serra. In 4 turns, it hit 16, got 0 lives, and could be killed by just another 4 power flier. The other deck can do 5 damages a turn and win.

Another example: a 2drop beast snekas in before. You have, normally, 10 turns to stop it (say its a black knigt or a soltari priest or something). Now think of nowadays legacy. A tarmogoyf slips in. Usually you have less than half those turns to stop it.

Smile


This is pointing out things that you don't like, a.k.a whining.

The Baneslayer Angel argument is an opinion that roots in you not liking creatures winning as quickly as said Serra Angel, and thus not liking it simply because it's stronger.

I, personally, like the stronger 5/5 angel because I like playing powerful cards. That's just how I roll. I'm really not sure why anyone wouldn't have fun playing a powerful card unless they are simply too immature to cope with their feelings of hopelessness over losing the game when their opponent's Baneslayer Angel starts taking away chunks of their life total - in a card game.

And on your Legacy argument: that is what happens when roughly twenty years worth of magic cards are printed fresh about 5 times per year (roughly 1,000 cards a year, anywhere from ~500-700 cards a year not being reprints, 20-30 not being strict downgrades of other cards). The format encompasses the fairest constructed version of magic's repertoire of printed cards. If you want a casual playing environment, find a casual play group.
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san



Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, it won't be simpler also to accept that some people might like playing a different kind of game?

its not about powerlevel. In today's contexts some older cards will be too powerful. The thing is that these cards were spread in different types (enchantments like necropotence or oath of druids, instants like good tutors or fow or brainstorm) and not only wincons (planeswalkers/creatures). Necro is quite more powerful than baneslayer angel or any beast you can think of, but it doesn't win by itself. You still need more pieces in the engine. Same is true for oath, any tutor or so. Almost every card type is, in fact, less powerful nowadays, except creatures.

Compare:

counterspell+fow = cancel/stoic rebuttal+mana leak.
hymn to tourach+mind twist = mind rot+expensive mind twist.
dark ritual = pyretic ritual/rite of flame/whatever.
fireblast = well, any burn.
wasteland+sinkhole = tectonic edge+welll who knows, destroyland doesnt work anymore.

(creature and artifact/enchantment hate s stable in stength in general. 1-2 mana good spot removal still available in general.)

And no, these issues aren't solved by RFT nor BYOB. And no, its not solved by casual gamin either.
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Tao



Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 864

PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your post makes zero sense and I'm just going go assume you only want to whine about how the game changed.

Edit:
Quote:
And no, these issues aren't solved by RFT nor BYOB. And no, its not solved by casual gamin either.


No you're right they're solved by GROWING A PAIR. The game changed, oh no I can't possibly find another game to play or a group of people who also want to pretend the game hasn't changed

P.s. Quit whining. This is a tournament magic website. If you want to whine about how the game changed, go join the mtgsalvation forums. They can't get enough people like you.
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Sprouts



Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree with san. Ive always wanted to be able to play older formats again, not only older cards, but the entire format, as if we were still in that time. There are so many cool decks back in mirage and tempest that i whish i could replay. Make some ancient formats mini, like 2002 t2, stuff like that.
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