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Priority and atack Phase



 
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R_I_P



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:28 pm    Post subject: Priority and atack Phase Reply with quote

I have in play a Tumble Magnet with 1 charge counter

my opp have

2/2 flyer and a Glint Hawk Idol, he don't play an artifact this turn.

my opp pass to his begin combat phase... then he want pass to his declare atack phase but he realize that i have a tumble magnet, so he ask me ok?... i answer ok (no tap the tumble magnet)... then he tap his 2/2 flyers and his glint hawk idol... tap a plains and atack me....

i said no, u can't pay for the glint hawk idol.

i am right? or i am wrong?
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GoneBananas
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

idk anymore

Last edited by GoneBananas on Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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R_I_P



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well for the god of magic-league CampusMonkey.... i am wrong...

i told him that took classes of judging and he banned me

NICE!
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Alphakiller



Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to clarify the process, what has happened here is that by passing priority to you (asking if you want to activate tumble magnet), he has declined to activate his own abilities and has given you a chance to activate your own abilities. since you declined to activate, priority had been passed twice consecutively with an empty stack; the game moves on to the next step.

this step happens to be the declare attackers step; the active player must declare all attackers at this time that are able to attack, and cannot activate any abilities until attackers have been declared. once he declares attackers then activates abilities or spells that he wants, he passes priority to you, you have a chance to respond, etc.

basically, he's stuck with an unanimated glint hawk idol because he allowed priority to be passed to you and it went to the declare attackers step.
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niknight



Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 261

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RIP: You are incorrect here. As noted in section 4.3 of the Magic Tournament Rules (located at http://www.wizards.com/dci/downloads/MTG_MTR_1Oct10_EN.pdf )

4.3 Out-of-Order Sequencing
Due to the complexity of accurately representing a game of Magic, it is acceptable for players to engage in a block of actions that, while technically in an incorrect order, arrive at a legal and clearly understood game state once they are complete.
All actions taken must be legal if they were executed in the correct order, and any opponent can ask the player to do the actions in the correct sequence so that he or she can respond at the appropriate time (at which point players will not be held to any still-pending actions).

So, your opponent took actions in an illegal order, but the game state that would have ensued would have been understood. In this case, his actions were considered out of order and he was allowed to correctly perform his action.

Now, if at any point in time you wanted to respond to those actions (such as by using your artifact), you are free to ask the abilities to be activated in the correct timing.
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R_I_P



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

niknight u are judge in real life??... u pass the exam??

u know what is criteria?

u know what happens when an opponent have 2 glint hawk idol and just one plains?

so he say ok?

u say ok?

he transform one glint hawk idol... and atack... but how i said ok i can't tap it??

or in other way...

he say ok?

i tap one glint hawk idol

and he transform the other and atack me???

u really play magic?? or what game are u playing??
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niknight



Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 261

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RIP: to take your questions in order.

1. I got a 96% on the exam... and the only two questions I got wrong were Humility questions a month before they changed layering (which made my answers correct). So to answer your question, I was certified at PT Boston in 2002.

2. You need to learn to read my responses fully before you go and post something absolutely foolish. To reiterate: If your opponent sequences something in an incorrect fashion, YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO BACK UP THE GAME AND FORCE HIM TO DO IT CORRECTLY SO YOU CAN RESPOND!

This means that if he activates in the declare attackers step, you can force him to back up to beginning of combat and activate the idol. At this point, you can use your artifact to tap it down BEFORE HE ATTACKS. One of the points behind out of order sequencing is that your opponent cannot use it to gain advantage... this is why you can back him up.

My apologies if you cannot understand simple English... but the rules were applied correctly. You could have stopped him if you wish, and responded to the activation.
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R_I_P



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes but yesterday, the judge say.... he is not doing anything illegal... and i told him ok... then i can tap his creature... and hi said to me no u can't...
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niknight



Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 261

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really?? He did? Gee... just let me check my channel logs.

Oh, here they are (I removed all references to the judge's and opponent's names for privacy concerns):

<R_I_P> what said that rule
[21:50:42] <R_I_P> can u tell me please
[21:51:06] <Judge> now, if you wish to activate an ability, then you can move back to the main phase and Opp can activate his Glint Hawk Idol at the appropriate time
[21:51:20] <R_I_P> ok
[21:51:23] <R_I_P> i want do that
[21:51:29] <Opp> Great
[21:51:30] <Judge> then please do so

So please tell me, where in that conversation does the judge say that you cannot tap his artifact? It seems to me that the judge actually agreed with you!
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R_I_P



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

check ur channel logs.... find a part where i said

"hey the i want tap his creature"

the judge said

"i already rule this, so i am not going to attemp this again" or something like that...
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