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Necrotic Ooze and Level up creatures


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Magic Rulings
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Stacks



Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:08 pm    Post subject: ooze Reply with quote

i might be wrong, but i think it just gets the abilities of each level, regardless of level counters. so if you had that vampire in there, you could tap to -2-2, -4-4, or murder.
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Clariax
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The abilities and power/toughness on a leveler that are specifically associated with having a certain number of level counters are all part of a single static ability.


Guul Draz Assassin has only one activated ability and two static abilities. The only activated ability it has is the level up ability. The static abilities give it the associated activated abilities when it has the appropriate number of level counters.


Quote:
710.2a. "{LEVEL N1-N2} [Abilities] [P/T]" means "As long as this creature has at least N1 level counters on it, but no more than N2 level counters on it, it's [P/T] and has [abilities]."
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Mizukage



Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hence you can activate level up to put a counter on your ooze but nothing more.
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Stork



Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Russell: No they can't!!!!! Levelers in Yards are seen with only the Level ability (plus whatever they have when they have counters). About if Ooze have the activated ability if it has enough counters I am not sure. I'd say no because the card doesnt gain the Levvelers statci ability and then cant use the activated ability (they can get levvel coutners but not activate ability that needs a higher level). But Clarriax says yes so I am not 100% suer.

I guess R&D was boerd when they printed this card and they wanted to mess with the judges a bit. This card is a mess, so fucking complicated!!!!!!!
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Conkisstador



Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 543

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

necrotic plague will gain the ability: 1B: Level Up.
Level counters do nothing on creatures that don't have an appropriate characteristic
example:
Renegade Doppleganger can level up while it is an Enclave Cryptologist but he doesn't gain any abilities unless he IS a cryptologist.

I will check with J2 community but I assume from there that the Ooze will not be able to use any of those abilities of hi-level creatures unless he actually copies the creature and already has the levels.
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and anyways , once you paid the "cost" (wich is an activated ability) isn't the "leveled up ability" a static one ?

(except obviously if the ability is a triggered one with " : " )
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Conkisstador



Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 543

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

magx i don't understand...

the best way to describe it is that the Guul Draz Assassin that you see in teh graveyard is a 1/1 with 1B: Level Up. Ooze only sees the 1/1. If by some absurd mechanism that graveyard assassin had 4 level counters on it, then Oooze would see a 4/4 with B, T: Target creature gets -4/-4.

you can also picture the ooze's ability as "copy an ability from a creature in paly." ... he won't have Assassins level 4 ability unless the Assassin IS level .
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Clariax
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russell_Nash wrote:
I think a more important question is "can activated abilities of leveler's be played without the ooze having any levels?"

For example: Can the Ooze use Brimstone Mage in your graveyard final ability right out of the gate? It is an activated ability of a creature in a graveyard, even though the mage nore the ooze have any level counters.


The only activated ability Brimstone Mage has is the level up ability. It also has a static ability that gives itself an activated ability if it has 3 or more level counters. But it's in the graveyard, and doesn't have any level counters on it, so doesn't have the activated ability.

Quote:
About if Ooze have the activated ability if it has enough counters I am not sure. I'd say no because the card doesnt gain the Levvelers statci ability and then cant use the activated ability (they can get levvel coutners but not activate ability that needs a higher level). But Clarriax says yes so I am not 100% suer.


Clariax did not say yes. The leveler has a static ability that grants it an activated ability. The Ooze does not copy this static ability, so has no way to grant itself the activated ability, and the card in the graveyard doesn't have to activated ability for the Ooze to copy.
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Tritemio



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if i copy the ability of Myr Propagator

3,{T}: Put a token that's a copy of Myr Propagator onto the battlefield.

i put a token 1/1 or 4/3
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Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tritemio wrote:
if i copy the ability of Myr Propagator. i put a token 1/1 or 4/3

The ability of Myr Propagator makes a copy of the object the ability is on. So you'll get a second Necrotic Ooze.
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Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

quiet_riot wrote:
I'll say you put a 1/1 creature, the card says put a copy Myr Propagator so it's not change in the ability.
I believe the same goes for some creatures with regeneration, in the the text is said cost:regenerate (the card), so in my opinion it won't be able to use the ability to regenerate the Ooze.

My question also goes for pestilence demon, the card says;

B:Pestilence demon deals one point of damage to each creature and player.

So Necrotic Ooze is not pestilence Demon and won't be able to use that ability.In my opinion.

And you would be wrong. When something mentions its own name, it really means 'this object' so when Necrotic Ooze copies the ability of Pestilence Demon it'll get the ability 'B: ~this~ deals 1 damage to each creature and each player' and that ability will work just fine.

Almost all activated abilities use their own name, what would be the point of a copy ability if you could hardly use it?
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Alphakiller



Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the purpose of reminder text is to remind you of rulings that are normally assumed. the lack of the reminder text on necrotic ooze is no proof that the name replacement does not occur.

also, a simple way to remember it is that, if you were to take any ability and remove a creature's name as you write it on paper, it would read "[cost]: [this object] [description]".

so when necrotic ooze gains that ability, it becomes treated as part of the ooze's text box, and the ability says "[cost]: Necrotic Ooze [description]".

a lot of things in Magic wouldn't work if this was not true.
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Alphakiller



Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

from the SoM FAQ:

Quote:
Necrotic Ooze
{2}{B}{B}
Creature -- Ooze
4/3
As long as Necrotic Ooze is on the battlefield, it has all activated abilities of all creature cards in all graveyards.

* Necrotic Ooze gains only activated abilities. It doesn't gain keyword abilities (unless those keyword abilities are activated), triggered abilities, or static abilities.

* Activated abilities contain a colon. They're generally written "[Cost]: [Effect]." Some keywords are activated abilities; they have colons in their reminder text.

* If an activated ability of a card in a graveyard references the card it's printed on by name, treat Necrotic Ooze's version of that ability as though it referenced Necrotic Ooze by name instead. For example, if Cudgel Troll (which says "{G}: Regenerate Cudgel Troll") is in a graveyard, Necrotic Ooze has the ability "{G}: Regenerate Necrotic Ooze."
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