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Back to Nature in valakut ramp sb


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getmatt201



Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:26 am    Post subject: Back to Nature in valakut ramp sb Reply with quote

Is back to nature really that good in the sb? I understand its good vs conscription and pyromancer. Is there something I'm missing?
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spreading Seas, Leyline of Sanctity and Oblivion Ring?
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[-a-L-e-]



Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep, you're missing something...is in the sb for uw control and every deck with leyline of sanctity.

edit: seconded.
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IanMac



Joined: 05 May 2010
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus it can take out pyro ascension, one of valakut's worst matchups.
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darkwizard42
Level 2 Judge


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

leyline of sanctity...spreading seas...HUGE problems for RG ramp, easily solved with 3-4 Back to Natures
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DTrooper
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manabarbs.
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Dr_Nico



Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only play 2 in the side but it can easily go to 4 depending on the level of hate in the metagame.
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P_P4E



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IanMac wrote:
Plus it can take out pyro ascension, one of valakut's worst matchups.


This is one of valakuts best matchups.
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DTrooper
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

P_P4E wrote:
IanMac wrote:
Plus it can take out pyro ascension, one of valakut's worst matchups.


This is one of valakuts best matchups.


Wrong. Go test.
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[-a-L-e-]



Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last time i was testing valakut vs pyromancer it ended like 8-2 pre-side. Pyromancer wins only cause of the bad draw of valakut or if he see one or two mana leak to deal with a titan of an avenger. All the others time rg valakuts close the game on 5th/6th turns, pyromancer to be faster have to charged pyromancer at two in the first four turns and go with time warp on t5. not so easy. Post sb i never tested, sorry.
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P_P4E



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DTrooper wrote:
P_P4E wrote:
IanMac wrote:
Plus it can take out pyro ascension, one of valakut's worst matchups.


This is one of valakuts best matchups.


Wrong. Go test.


You're 100% wrong, and I'm willing to fight you bare knuckle to prove im right.

How does that sound?
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DTrooper
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Test the deck correctly, guys. It either aggressively kills on turn five or, when it just doesn't need to, plays proactively and combos only when needed. Valakut has no early clock and gets slowed down immensely with a single counterspell, making the Ascension deck a very poor matchup.

Ten games? Of those, all were pre-sideboarded? The pilot was obviously a joke and so was that testing session.

That said, I don't know what everyone is doing playing Spreading Seas maindeck in Ascension combo. That card is absolutely useless now and the deck can't afford to spend its second turn not putting anything in the graveyard. Perhaps the list you tested against also had that stupid 4-of.
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[-a-L-e-]



Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DTrooper wrote:

Ten games? Of those, all were pre-sideboarded? The pilot was obviously a joke and so was that testing session.


They aren't ten games but like 25-30. "it ended 8-2" it mean 80-20 for valakut, 'cause the score was like 17-11 for it. And yes, like i said, they were all pre-sb.

Dunno why you say that the pilot was obviously a joke.

DTrooper wrote:

That said, I don't know what everyone is doing playing Spreading Seas maindeck in Ascension combo. That card is absolutely useless now and the deck can't afford to spend its second turn not putting anything in the graveyard. Perhaps the list you tested against also had that stupid 4-of.


I don't know if you're talking to me or in general, but...no, i don't play spreading seas md or others stupid 4-of.

UR ascension

// Lands
7 [UNH] Island
6 [UNH] Mountain
2 [WWK] Halimar Depths
1 [UNH] Plains
3 [M11] Terramorphic Expanse
3 [ROE] Evolving Wilds

// Spells
4 [ZEN] Pyromancer Ascension
4 [A] Lightning Bolt
2 [ZEN] Burst Lightning
4 [M11] Preordain
4 [M10] Ponder
4 [ROE] See Beyond
4 [ZEN] Into the Roil
4 [SH] Mana Leak
4 [M11] Call to Mind
4 [TE] Time Warp

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [MOR] Negate
SB: 4 [ZEN] Spreading Seas
SB: 4 [WWK] Rest for the Weary
SB: 4 [A] Earthquake

The list is pretty solid, the only doubt is about the 4 call to mind, sometimes they're heavy and just too much.

// Lands
12 [UNH] Mountain
6 [UNH] Forest
3 [ROE] Evolving Wilds
3 [TSP] Terramorphic Expanse
4 [ZEN] Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

// Creatures
2 [SC] Siege-Gang Commander
1 [M11] Inferno Titan
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
4 [WWK] Avenger of Zendikar

// Spells
4 [ZEN] Khalni Heart Expedition
4 [10E] Rampant Growth
4 [WWK] Explore
4 [ZEN] Harrow
3 [M11] Cultivate
2 [A] Lightning Bolt

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [ROE] All Is Dust
SB: 2 [M11] Gaea's Revenge
SB: 3 [M11] Back to Nature
SB: 4 [M11] Obstinate Baloth
SB: 4 [M10] Pyroclasm

A pretty classic list.

So, what's your point? our testing was with two good lists, and the pilot are not obviously a joke. Anyway we are off topic, so i quit here.
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Pins4Sins



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a bad Ascension deck...
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DTrooper
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I admit I was a tad too arrogant but, in my defense, you said 8-2, meaning ten games, and only pre-sideboard... which isn't that much of a testing session. You should be playing more post-sideboard games than pre-sideboard. Thirty games is, however, pretty respectable.

That said, that Ascension list plays ten ETBT lands, which can't be right. Rest for the Weary might be good against RDW, but ten tapped lands slows the deck down for at least one, usually two turns. No wonder the Ramp list was winning so much. Slowing the deck down that much screws all your other matchups only to have a small edge against RDW. And Rest for the Weary isn't game over, not even close... to win the RDW matchup the deck should be streamlined to kill as soon as possible and play four Burst Lightning post-sideboard.
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