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Resolving Haunting Echoes with MWS



 
Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Magic Workstation (MWS)
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derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell him to remove his cards, then show his library to you as proof that he removed all.

What you should not do is to have 2 players messing with the same library at the same time, as that causes errors sometimes.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have control of the board, he is in topdeck mode and are removing so many threats/answers that it is unlikely he will manage to win, make a decision whether or not you are going to spend 5 minutes removing cards from his library only to have you win 2 turns later.

This isn't such a "friendly match" move as you would think. If it was the first or second game of a major tourney match, your opponent would certainly think twice even before looking through his library and gy - if it means he would have more time to win the next game vs mill.
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rast2



Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't take 5 minutes to resolve echoes on MWS. More like 90 seconds tops.

1. Victim opens yard, checks the box to sort it, drags it to the side
2. Victim opens library, clicks the box to sort, drags all the chosen cards to the table in stacks.
3. Victim CLOSES library, then shows library to caster for verification.
4. Victim waits for caster to close library.
5. This is caster's opportunity to decide *not* to find certain cards, typically nonbasic lands. (Most players on MWS don't know they can do this.) If he announces that he wants certain cards to remain, victim drags them from the table back to the library.
6. victim shuffles once.
7. victim RFGs cards from table stack
8. victim RFGs yard (one click). If there were basic lands, put them back in the yard after.
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DaWorm



Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ rast2

Sounds like a gameloss for fraud.

Correct way to do this is first to show the opponent the library, ask him what to remove, then removing the card. You are not allowed to remove any card or make any decision until told otherwise
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HuDat



Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ *smells many game errors about to happen*

rast's post was perfect
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rast2



Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I'm not a judge, but...

Because on MWS the opponent can't actually move your cards, the default assumption has to be that he wants to remove as many as possible, unless he says otherwise. The opponent is free to decide at any point during the process that he doesn't want a particular card found, at which point you move it from where it is (table or RFG) and put it back into the deck.

If you want to show him the deck BEFORE you start removing, that's fine -- just make sure he closes the deck before you open it. Otherwise you risk him doing a close+shuffle while you are moving cards --> MWS error --> game ruined.
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