Is there any interest in REAL combos anymore???

Poutineman · Joined: 05 Nov 2009 Posts: 1

Seriously,

I dont know what it looks like in real play, but on Magic Work Station, Baneslayer angel and planeswalkers are just lame...

There are so many ways to keep those cards alive, and to exhaust your opponent on trying to get rid of them... it seems I never get enough terminate, maelstrom pulse (etc) to get rid of them!

My point is that i see way too much deck that look the same. Everything is starting to be build around 4 or 5 cards...

Anywho, my greatest grudge is against magic for putting cards out there that have 3 or 4 combos all in one card... combos used to be something that you achieved by combining 2 or more cards. Not by singularly playing one card, like Nissa Revane.

What is the goal behind that? I dont know, but I am slowly losing interest in magic, and will probably burn my 45 000 card collection because my old cards are now worth sh#$.

Is there something I am not getting here? Maybe I missed something? Please make me see some sens out of this all.

Thank you.

Oh, and by the way, I m really pissed. Sad

SniperMayer · Joined: 31 Jan 2008 Posts: 233

Well that's only for Standard imo. However it's true. There's no real combo or even control deck in T2. There are only a few aggros that are tier 1 and dominate the format. (Vampires, Jund, Boros) All the other decks were only built to beat these. It means balance is lost between aggro, control and combo.

There are a lot of combos in extended right now, maybe too much.

Legacy is where the balance is kept, but hey! How many players play eternal formats? I just love Legacy, but I have to say that no1 plays that format in my area.

Sarutobi · Joined: 21 Oct 2008 Posts: 18

I totally agree sith sniper on the legacy issue, just cant understand how no one is interested in such an open format...

@Poutineman I feel you on the no combo decks in standard right now, but in all honesty, I'd say exercise a little patience. If you check recent sets all the tools for "traditional" comboing are all there, so in all likelyhood wotc probably has afew of the possible missing pieces for the several potential combos waiting in zendikar expansions. It is afterall, a very simple thing to turn an open the vaults deck into infinite combos with just one new card, for example....

p.s. I dont see how Nissa Revane can be a one card combo, her abilities by definition require alot of support cards and, in an elf deck at least, somewhat unusual plays.

SniperMayer · Joined: 31 Jan 2008 Posts: 233

@Sarutobi:

It's easy. If you want to start playing Legacy you have to invest a lot of money in it. I mean you need fetches, duals, wastelands, etc... Or you can play budget and suck all the time vs better decks. That's why most play T2 (which is more expensive imo if you play it for longer period).

As my favorite type is combo, I tried to play 1. Tested Pyro ascension with many variants and Bloodchief Ascension too. Now I'm trying Time Sieve combo, but I just don't feel that it's secure of Jund for example. Boros is just too fast, Jund has Blightning which rapes the deck most of the time. All the aggro decks have tools to be very powerful, but there really isn't a reliable way to defeat them. At least I just can't find a consistent way to deal with them.

Tink903 · Joined: 25 Sep 2008 Posts: 48

Yes as said above legacy is sort of expensive to get into if you want a solid deck. As for no combo in magic it seems to me that they are "dumbing" down the game alot with each new set/block and making aggro stronger and stronger. I mean in type as stated above also, the top decks are all aggro and while they are all good they dont take alot of thought to play or have hard learning curves. Extended isnt that bad right now though you should give that a look Smile

EMA · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 52

There's nothing wrong with printing powerful cards... Were u happy when Kamigawa was spoiled?? Jitte and gifts ungiven in a sea of nothing...
Powerful cards is what makes them actually sell their product, they make profit, we are getting good cards, everyone wins here.
I sadly have to agree with the dumbing down of the game but I guess it was necessary to attract new players, I'm just curious to see where the game is going.
As for the standard format lack of balance, I don't agree, there are actually A LOT of combos to design around(time sieve, pyromancer, crypt of agadeem: that's plenty of combo cards), and I believe control decks are to come out once the meta is more defined.
Just my 2 cents

SniperMayer · Joined: 31 Jan 2008 Posts: 233

I agree that we have combo cards and yes, I'm happy if WoTC prints more powerful cards BUT! The powerful cards' balance is also out to improve aggro. I mean if they printed some sort of nice draw cards or counters the format wouldn't suck like this. Ok it doesn't suck, but it's heading to a metagame like once was when Mirrodin was standard legal. Ravager that couldn't be stopped. Now we have at least some choices to play.

I only beg for a nice draw and a good counterspell. Now that much, but it can improve the meta and the whole format.

Russell_Nash · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 657 Location: Burn Ward

Combos should not be teir 1 in t2 i believe. Combo decks I feel at best should able to take on SOME teir 1 decks and be a good meta call for a large tournies if you think that deck will be popular.

Like owling mine in PT Honolulu a few years back.

Combo decks should not be teir 1, take all comers deals like dragonstorm recently.

Combos are dumb and by nature no interactive. I understand the use of them in a meta, but I don't believe there should be a teir 1 combo deck in EVERY t2.

*if you want combo to be awesome go try ext, 1.5 or t1. Those formats are almost revolved around combo.

TaKK · Joined: 09 Aug 2009 Posts: 13

I hate how people dog on combo decks.

They are the same as playing any other deck. No interaction? The interaction is that your opponent tries disrupting your play while still posing a threat and you trying to survive while getting your win-con out.
Same as aggro or control... you do what you can to disrupt your opponent while finding a way to get your win-con out. Whether the win includes a "combo" or not doesn't matter.

So saying something like "I don't believe there should be a teir 1 combo deck in EVERY t2" is the same as saying "I don't think there should be a tier 1 control deck in every T2". Doesn't make sense does it?

But I agree the other non-T2 formats do have many more combo decks than T2... but T2 decks have won Vintage/Legacy/EXT tournaments before. =]

Anyway the format is still new; there is only one set out from the new Block. Control is almost non-existent at the beginning of a new meta. Be patient and wait for innovation... or make a deck yourself!

Edowardo · Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 15

i feel this conversation is had at the beginning of every new block. just wait aggro always comes out strong while control waits in the shadows. this is history repeating itself. nothing new.

Stucco · Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 595

Wizards always seems to print some cards that are just really powerful. This isn't exclusive to this new block and people always complain about it. Even in a weakish block like Kamigawa, you'll see powerful cards such as Umezawa's Jitte released.

If your decks are unable to beat the top tier decks, perhaps you need to figure out why. Then decide if you current decks are worth tweaking. If they are unsalvagable, build something new using the top tier strategies. You can be creative and expand your game at the same time Very Happy

kumagmd · Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 53

dude... there was this time where Faeries and 5cc were the only decks around. Fine, there was also Kithkin, but it was mostly the Fae and Reflecting Pool. Most people will always be unimaginative and just copy off the local/internet tech deck, with a few tweaks so they can claim the deck as theirs (or sometimes not even - see Cascade Desire). There is Es Una Trappa deck - Cast Summoning Trap for Iona, call out BLACK, and if you're still healthy, you almost auto-win agaisnt Jund and Vampires (no non-black destruction). The reason why a deck dominates is because people copy each other, see the most recent standard trial on M-L? Nothin' but Jund. It's bound to happen if a tournament just plays out with everyone playing Jund.

Combo decks are dangerous because they usually aren't very versatile and would require several cards to pull the game through. HOWEVER, Combo decks get points for plain style =).

Jacois · Joined: 05 Sep 2004 Posts: 674

Worlds are coming up, I'm sure the pros are keeping the best of the best in control decks under wraps until then. So in a few months I'll probably read a thread complaining about control, then in another 4 months a thread complaining about some new combo deck.

AKA, the internet is all talk and no action.

Trotsky1 · Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 1458

I think its undeniable, wizards are dumbing down the game. As much as I do not like it, the impact has not been all that negative for me (keep in mind when i say this I play almost entirly limited). Overall I think its a good stratergy for keeping the flaming torch of magic alight for as long as possible, even if it does not suit my needs as a player.

I think Wizards would have to do alot, and I mean alot of dumbing down to stop the tournamnets being the same people winning by doing the same things.

dwarfas · Joined: 26 Jul 2009 Posts: 55

SniperMayer

Legacy is hard to play IRL. Not many people have duel lands or 4x tarmo. You bust out your countertop goyf deck while the guy pulls out a really slow cascade deck. you're just going to blow out the guy.

9 land green is probably the cheapest $ wise deck. That's the deck I hand to people to play with me in two headed giant or emperor or w/e. Nothing from it I will miss; no moxes duel lands none of that in there, just winter orb and vine dryad but they are scanned now; I keep them safe.

I learned my lesson. I played with real moxes and duel lands and even though they were in sleeves if I pull them out the back is jacked up.
~
Jacois

Reality is what you perceive - only you can change what is real in your mind

~
If combo decks are dumb then playing a creature and attacking with it till you win is dumb too.