Critique a UG Tron-Tooth Control idea

Thicket · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 115

I had an idea for a UG Tron control deck with Tooth and Nail as its kill. The idea is to prevent them from doing anything, in particular stopping the final shot when it's time. Here's the list, please offer any critique or suggestion:

4 Tooth and Nail
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Noble Heirarch
4 Mana Leak
3 Gifts Ungiven
3 Condescend
3 Gigadrowse
3 Vendillion Clique
2 Eternal Witness
2 Reap and Sow
1 Kiki Jiki
1 Pestermite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Painters Servant

12 Urza Lands
4 Breeding Pool
4 Misty Rain Forest
2 Tolaria West
1 Island
1 Foest

Any suggestions on the cards, numbers, or even the strategy as a whole are welcome. I'm hoping the control package is enough to protect the Tooth once it's time and to minimize damages while I wait for it. I guess I would also ask how you think this holds up compared to a UW Tron type control strategy since I'm having trouble deciding which way to go for my "Tron experiment," but I really like the idea of the Tooth/Kiki/Pestermite kill. I can post the UW list I've been dreaming up but figure one crazy deck at a time Smile

Thanks!

Spyx · Joined: 31 Oct 2004 Posts: 1031

You need one reclaim so you have a sure way to gifts up T&N.

Thicket · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 115

Oooh, didn't know about that card! Eternal witness fit that role, but both is a guarantee Smile

Thicket · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 115

U think the rest of the list adequately supports the game plan?

InWaking · Joined: 30 Jun 2009 Posts: 41

YOU NEVER STOP THE FINAL SHOT WHEN IT'S TIME!! THAT'S JUST SO MEAN!

On a serious note though I am not feeling gigadrowse I like simic signet over heirarch and I like the idea of playing 1 Scapeshift to ensure you get tron in the worse case scenario.

All in all I really like the idea of tron kickin ass and taking names so when I get a bit more time I am going to test your version of the deck and report back but as of now Scapeshift and signet are my two opinions.

Thicket · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 115

Hmmmmmmmmm... the idea with heirarch (over sakura as well) was to have a little dude who could chump block or attack for 1 or 2 if need be. And the acceleration is quick. The signet seems a lil slow too, I'm not sure. Cant use it till turn 3 and it's basically doing the same thing as Dr. Noble aside from being a lil less fragile (being artifact and not creature).

Scapeshift, on the other hand, is an excellent suggestion! I'm not sure what I'd replace, so I'll start by asking: why not feeling the drowse? I love that card and it's practically a time walk with enough blue available. It's to buy time before the big finale. Though if we assume you plead an excellent case and Giga goes out the window, maybe replace with 2 Scapeshift and a 4th Gifts (I already loved Gifts, but Spyx's revelation makes it even sweeter)?

Thicket · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 115

Some other thoughts:

- If I go up to 4 Gifts and have Witness and Reclaim, maybe fewer Tooths(Teeth?) are needed?

- With all the dig-shit-out-of-my-graveyard effects, are the Iona and Painters Servant even necessary any more? Or do they exist solely so I don't have to scoop when they Path to Exile Kiki Jiki and I have no counters? Otherwise, that frees up 2 slots.

- Should I add 4 Scute Mob? jk

weehood · Joined: 10 Jun 2008 Posts: 77

hmm... idea seems good
be careful with the kiki/pestermite combo win, as a single removal (placed correctly on the stack) kills it quite effectively.

tooth and nail seems like a powerful idea. counterspells can ruin a T&N day, so try boseiju either 1-of main or side, as you can tutor it up with scrying/tolaria

overall, looks like a good rough draft so far Smile

good luck!

kfcman · Joined: 16 Sep 2006 Posts: 726

TehDudeAbide · Joined: 20 May 2008 Posts: 33

Wall of Roots?

Remand??

InWaking · Joined: 30 Jun 2009 Posts: 41

I had only time to test vs one person we played 5 games and I lost every one of them it was vs. a Red burn deck that splashed black. I am not feeling the vendillions I would replace them with tribeelders. I was also playing the signets over heirarchs but I honestly don't believe they would have made any difference in my games vs burn. Against burn I was always sad to be drawing the fetch lands. I will post you a new list later gotta head to work.
I really like your idea but last night I was very discouraged losing 5 games in row vs. burn.

Thicket · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 115

kfc: Agreed, Noble out, Sakura in

TehDude: I forgot about Wall of Roots, that would prob be a good addition. Gotta see where it can fit. As for remand, wouldnt a straight counter be better than a bouncer?

InWaking: Well that's no good! Tho I'm flattered you tested it. I'm surprised the counters werent able to hold off the burn. Like, were the pieces of the puzzle (the tron, the gifts, the tooth, etc etc) not coming up? Or was the burn out-racing you even under ideal conditions? I def wanna find a place to get wall of roots in so the deck will be a lil faster. And at least vs burn you dont have to worry about protecting the death blow. I think the sakuras will do much better than the signets or heirarchs (thanks kfc), tho admittedly I was never sold on the signets, seemed too slow.

It seems (and is the idea) that with enough counters, you should be able to survive the bolt-ing in time to crush, but that's theory talking. Also there are 2 counter cards, their names escape me atm, one counters creatures one counters non-creatures. I was wondering if maybe the non creature one should be in there, even if in SB, since it seems like instants (paths, counters, BURN) could be a pain in the ass. In theory I liked the Cliques as they help take an answer out of their hand, and give an alternate source of offense or defense, even if a weak one. But I'm certainly OK with seeing that taken out for Roots or something else helpful. Also, you were against the gigadrowse, but with enough blue, couldnt that have staved off the burn, or at least minimized it significantly?

I actually havent been able to put it together to test it yet, but should today or tomorrow. My opponent will likely be playing Bant. I may also "play myself" against my Zoo deck. I need to put that together so I can post some reasults and not just guesses! lol So thanks again for giving it a try and providing some data, even if it's daunting at 1st.

SniperMayer · Joined: 31 Jan 2008 Posts: 269

If you have problems vs burn try adding some Hallowed Fountains in (1 or 2) which can be searched by using Misty Rainforest and add a couple of COP:Red in the side. Running 3 colors also makes Engineered Explosives a viable side option.

Thicket · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 115

I actually thought of that, Sniper, believe it or not. The problem is the Trons and Tolarias and Boseiju etc makes the slots for land pretty tight. Though I suppose 1 couldnt hurt, especially if burn ends up a serious problem. I'm still surprised all the counters werent enough to survive the burn long enough, but no one I play uses straight burn decks, so all I can do is shrug I guess lol

darkwizard42 · Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 105

I am really not feeling the Gigadrowse in main deck. With so many colorless etc producing lands, its not worth running it in mainboard. I would consider it a very viable sideboard option. I would even suggest running Sleep or something instead...since the main deck that this will lose to is Aggro Zoo/ Burn.

Against Hypergenesis I would throw Chalice into the Sideboard.

I would also like to see Repeal in the spot of Gigadrowse. Not only does Repeal get rid of those creatures temporarily, but it also pops away those annoying Marit Lage tokens that are running around.

Adding White may be viable, and I could see Ghostly Prison becoming useful. I would definitely suggest Wall of Roots to get around the burn matchups and would put 3 Kitchen Finks in the mainboard instead of Cliques.

-3 Gigadrowse
+3 Repeal

-3 Vendillion Clique
+3 Kitchen Finks

The control matchup is fine when you find Boseiju, and the aggro matchups are fine when you can stabilize life, and block their attacks...Wall of Roots needs a home here (cut the hierarchs)