Why is noone talking about that?

KeySam · Joined: 14 Oct 2005 Posts: 619

I didnt post it i posted in this thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=4492203&posted=1#post4492203

gypsy · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 1118

i doubt anyone would remind theyre opponent how to win the game when playing for 40k. it's kinda late to do anything about it anyway.
both players didnt say anything, the judge + additional spotters didn't say anything coverage reporters didnt see it, i dont think anyone playing for 40k would bring it up. obviously kibler knew about it but i dont think he should be dqued for doing something anyone would probably have done.

Trotsky1 · Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 1458

If that could be proved he would br DQed and rightly, however it can not which is the point, a large sum of money is no moral justification for doing anything, In my opinion its a pretty pathetic reason to do anything.

Sprouts · Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 25

If you forget your angel of despair trigger, you deserve to lose, and be cheated too...

wiltstorm · Joined: 13 Nov 2008 Posts: 23

kibler's opp is in the top 8 of a porffessional magic tournament, dont u think that he shoulda realized his own trigger?

LordLink · Joined: 11 Oct 2007 Posts: 66

I'm more inclined to say that the half a dozen high level judges watching the game should have noticed.

Kibler just has to wave that around as a defence for why he 'forgot' and he's fine.

He did race a progenitus though, props for that. Shows that tight technical play is important even when you have a board position that dominating.

xiko · Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 23

that is not the point, the point is the intent of not pointing it out as the rules say

xerocat · Joined: 06 Oct 2005 Posts: 14

I was going to type how people are quick to believe what they want to, point fingers, and rally to which hunts just because "someone over on this forum said..." or "I heard, therefore it must be true" etc. However, I didnt want to be one of those people either, so I checked the coverage myself. While it doesn't make the quick accusations and apparent envy/bitterness/drama right, Kibler did have Baneslayer in hand when Hypergenesis was cast.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n165/xerocat/kibler.jpg

The image is just as after Hypergenesis was cascaded into (1:14:06 time stamp). Some quality was lost in this photo, but that is a Baneslayer in hand, along with 3 Meddling mage, what might be Punishing Fire, and an unknown card far left.

Does this mean he was cheating? Absolutely not. You can't prove he didn't miss the trigger as well. Once AoD comes into play, Baneslayer is staying in his hand. It stays in his hand if he remembers the trigger or forgets it. Nothing changes in the scenario either way. Why would he put Baneslayer into play to just get destroyed by Angel of Despair? He didn't take any specific action that he'd only have done if he was aware the other player was forgetting the trigger. He would have played it the same way had he missed the trigger as well.

For those that say the trigger is so obvious, tell that to the guy making Top 8 with the deck itself and forgetting Angel's trigger as well.

Finally, (playing devil's advocate) even if something should be done about it, DQ? Really? When both players miss the trigger, the judges miss it, and no one can prove any intent to cheat. Don't you think that's extremely harsh/unfair? It is a PT, but it is equal responsibility of both players to maintain game state. Are you suggesting to DQ the hypergenesis player too, as they both committed the same infraction? Warnings, sure. DQ......it's a good thing we have better judges than that.

In summary, both players missed the trigger, but a DQ is not neccessary and quite ridiculous. The Hypergenesis player made a colossal mistake of his own doing and it cost him the match while Kibler did not. If any actions need to be taken from this after the fact, it is that the judges need to pay closer attention to the PT T8 games and a warnings given, but the results should stand.

CHRONICBL · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 72

If you are in the top 8 of a Pro Tour and you miss your own trigger on AOD you deserve to lose. They both would receive warnings it is not only kiblers fault.

Jacois · Joined: 05 Sep 2004 Posts: 674

ukkertind · Joined: 07 Aug 2005 Posts: 2

I think the bottom line here is that it cant be proven that kibler new the trigger was mandatory, even considering his interview.
Therefore it probably cant be proven he cheated, and therefore by no means he should be dqed (in dubio pro reo).
So looking at it strictly by the rules he also is the correct winner Smile

xiko · Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 23

gypsy · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 1118

i think everyone should ask themselves, has a really bad opponent ever missed a lot of triggers and you got frustrated and stopped reminding them. im not saying the hypergenesis guy is bad but i dont think there is a person here that has not done this.

brimstone · Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 29

xiko · Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 23