Why is noone talking about that?

KeySam · Joined: 14 Oct 2005 Posts: 619

Why is noone talking about the cheating going on in the protour. Kibbler cleary cheated when he didnt remind his opponent about the Angel of Despair trigger. And no he didnt forget it he didnt put Baneslayer Angel into play to play around AoD. I guess people think its like not reminding an opponent that he missed a soul warden trigger, but its actually not the same. The rules are pretty clear in this regards. We dont choose which rules to follow and which not. I am also not a huge fan of this kind of rule, the fact remains that he break the rules on purpose, which is consider cheating and should be an DQ.

Any Thoughts?

IkeReilly · Joined: 11 Dec 2007 Posts: 34

or he drew the baneslayer off the top and that's why he windmill slammed it? Considering that he had three meddling mages to play he could play around AoD anyway.

Shooter · Joined: 11 Mar 2005 Posts: 107

most ppl here = from usa
kibler = from usa

usaers like when usa wins

that's why Very Happy

Trotsky1 · Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 1458

He did have the baneslayer in hand it says somewhere in the commentray. I guess most people missed the fact if he did not play the baneslayer he clearly knew about the trigger. You could still not really prove that he knew and was cheating, though he probably did.

Christopholo · Joined: 25 Apr 2006 Posts: 12

ya its pretty sad. I also feel its very likely that Kibler was certainly aware of the missed trigger; thats why he didn't drop the baneslayer angel right away and waited until the next turn. I'm not a big fan of the rule either, since ultimately the controller of an effect should be responsible for its placement on the stack.

A rule was still broken deliberately, and Kibler cheated. but as it stands, it would be impossible to prove that Kibler realized anything - even with him obviously holding the baneslayer back to prevent it from being destroyed.

In the coverage you'll notice that they weren't sure whether Kibler had just drawn Baneslayer or not; they assumed it must have come off the top, otherwise he would have put it into play with the HPG (What Buehler says).

BUT HE PLAYS THE BANESLAYER next turn off of a TEMPLE GARDEN. he had to have drawn Temple Garden THAT turn, otherwise he would have played a t4 Meddling Mage naming Hypergenesis. the only reason he couldn't was because he was missing white mana.

Anyway, Kibler cheated and the whole situation is very very disappointing; should be a DQ, would be difficult to prove though.

KeySam · Joined: 14 Oct 2005 Posts: 619

I dont think its hard to prove, they have cameras on the hands of the players. Also i think i red on mtgsalvation that he sayed he was holding baneslayer angel back. And he obviously drew the temple garden he would played thatone for sure of the hypergensis. And if you prove he had baneslayer and holding it back that it doesnt die to angel of despair(the only logical explanation) you actually already proved he cheated.

The last thing standing in the way would be he could have though it was a may trigger.
There are a couple of things i want to say. You usualy see may triggers on repeadent effects(soul warden..) and at the top of my head i dont know a card that has a may with a comes into play effect.
Then even if he would been unsure he could take the card in his turn, read it if it says may nothing happens if it doesnt he reminds his opponent that he missed it and both get a warnign thatway hes save both ways. He cleary, intenttionaly did not tell his opponent about the AoD. This is fundamently different to other Situations like Yosei. I am actually sure they could easily prove that he had Baneslayer on hand and drew the temple garden if they want to.
I actually think the appropiate move from WoTC would be to DQ him afterwards.

Btw i am not saying Kibbler is a bad person, he might not even though about it as cheating, i dont know and i dont care to be honest. He broke the rules on purpose, which is a dq.

And by the way, i wouldnt be so harsh if he just played me for fun, we are talking about thousands of dollars here folks.

KeySam

PenguinSlave · Joined: 14 Sep 2008 Posts: 48

i don think it matters now,thats why noone's talking about it

Ffancrzy · Joined: 30 Apr 2006 Posts: 127

The problem with that is you would have to infract both players. The rules state that both players are responsible for the trigger, so both would receive the same infraction. In addition there we're a lot of permanents that came into play, so it could have slipped his mind.

It's an unfortunate mistake, but you can't reasonably put everything on kibler.

KeySam · Joined: 14 Oct 2005 Posts: 619

Ludz · Joined: 29 Feb 2008 Posts: 67

Omnomcake · Joined: 27 Oct 2005 Posts: 86

so because Kibler's opponent missed a trigger he is cheating? There is not a person here who would have done anything different. Whoever he beat has nobody to blame here but themselves...

Burton911 · Joined: 09 Jun 2007 Posts: 42

I can't say if he cheated or not, buf if he did it would be a clear statement against that stupid "making the good play for your opponent"-Rule.

But he knew about the Angel of Despair when it was time to put the Baneslayer on the Board, cause his opponent played only 2 Creatures, whereas he already had 3 Meddling Mages, so its quite logical to keep the Baneslayer.

The only thing what his opponent could do to win there, would be destroying 1 of the N Hirearchs, but he would propably choose one of the MMs anayway.

Shooter · Joined: 11 Mar 2005 Posts: 107

the cheat was noticing the trigger and don't saying it, not about missing the trigger (if he didn't notice he'd have put slayer in play)

There is not a person here who would have done anything different.

talk about urself

KeySam · Joined: 14 Oct 2005 Posts: 619

ant900 · Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Posts: 2505 Location: somewhere