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Mill Flood, Blue with a splash of black


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kaamos



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:01 pm    Post subject: Mill Flood, Blue with a splash of black Reply with quote

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [M10] Drowned Catacomb
4 [M10] Swamp (1)
11 [M10] Island (3)
3 [M10] Terramorphic Expanse

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Hedron Crab

// Spells
4 [M10] Convincing Mirage
4 [ALA] Resounding Wave
4 [ZEN] Spreading Seas
4 [ARB] Mind Funeral
4 [ZEN] Archive Trap
4 [M10] Spell Pierce <------- Updated
4 [M10] Jace Beleren
2 [CFX] Traumatic Visions
4 [ALA] Cancel

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [M10] Flashfreeze
SB: 4 [ALA] Infest
SB: 3 [M10] Duress
SB: 4 [M10] Essence Scatter



I have been trying to put spreading seas, convincing mirage and Resounding wave in a deck as a form of mana control vs multi color. You've seen the variants Ive liked enough to post here, this one seems work the best.

Though, hederon crab/terramorphic is probably not necessary, it fits the theme and makes a decent one drop.

EDIT: I am considering Haunting Echoes


What do you guys think?
~Kaamos


Last edited by kaamos on Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:49 am; edited 2 times in total
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Tao



Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 864

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaamos, please stop trying to make this deck good. And Hedron Crab? Really?
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kaamos



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ya rly, its a good one drop.

By their 5th turn, after their 5th draw, they are 12 cards drawn ( 48 ) and if you played hederon on turn 1, depending on who went first and if you used a terramorphic, youve milled them 15-21 cards already (33)

Thats without the main mill cards (trap, funeral)

Also if you think about how funeral works vs lands (4) it gets stronger after every land dropped or milled, 50ish% chance your archive trap/crab will make the card alot stronger. played 1-2 fetch lands? there goes another couple lands from the deck.


But yea, otherwise late game hederon is not usefull, but I couldnt imagine the card more usefull anywhere else ;p


Because of the level of enjoyment ive been getting from the "flood" oriented style here and the mill (specifically mind funeral <3) This deck and some blightning beats will be the two decks i will be making irl Very Happy


And thanks for the credit vs Jund Very Happy
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Parker2038



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to play milling try my W/U version. Traumatic visions? Convincing Mirage? Is that a joke?
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kaamos



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Parker2038 wrote:
If you want to play milling try my W/U version. Traumatic visions? Convincing Mirage? Is that a joke?


Supposed to be Haunting Echoes, and mirage/seas/wave is good early mana control
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kaamos



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I challenge you to a duel, each of my flood decks vs you with Jund Blightening ;p

However playtesting had anything blue/green, and vamp/goblin giving me a hard time.


Its just seeing variants of Jund Blightening being played over 50% of the time (online..) playing a deck that slows it down feels attractive, besides any blightning variants I would post would seem redundant vs all of the others being played. That also includes: Vampires, white baneslayer, goblins.... Just about anything already known to be good.


And besides, I even made a scute mob variant of the deck, and you were not pleased, what more can I do but continue to tinker with an idea that half works- until it works?

I think it works often enough to ask for criticism, and it seems Im defending my deck moreso than I am telling anyone theyre not being helpful... so keep on telling me it sucks, someone will have something constructive to say... eventually Razz
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illusion



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always liked Spreading Sea's and how much it anal rapes Noctornus if you get multiple copies.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Mill, you're trying to do 60 damage in the same time as your opponent is trying to do 20.

The milling itself has absolutely no effect until it is his draw phase and there are no cards in his library. The idea that putting cards from the top of his randomized library into his graveyard disrupts anything is simply wrong.

I faced one mill deck that seemed like a difficult opponent (for my UR Runeflare deck anyways) and that one had like 28 answers consisting of counters and creature removal + Twincast and the trap. That is, instead of trying to mill as fast as possible, he was hellbent on staying alive long enough to see my library empty. If you, despite the inherent weakness of the mill strategy, still want to pursue the current deck idea, I advice you to go the survival route.
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kaamos



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well technically by turn 3 your trying to do 50 damage


Archive is 5 for 13 (or zero)

Mind funeral takes 4 lands so its more like 3 for 9-12 ish


Hederon Crab is like 1 for 9-12? or more?


Hunting Echoes is like, the win condition.
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kaamos



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Updated


// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [M10] Drowned Catacomb
4 [M10] Swamp (1)
11 [M10] Island (3)
3 [M10] Terramorphic Expanse

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Hedron Crab

// Spells
4 [M10] Convincing Mirage
4 [ALA] Resounding Wave
4 [ZEN] Spreading Seas
4 [ARB] Mind Funeral
4 [ZEN] Archive Trap
4 [M10] Jace Beleren
4 [ALA] Cancel
2 [M10] Haunting Echoes
4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [ALA] Infest
SB: 4 [M10] Essence Scatter
SB: 4 [M10] Flashfreeze
SB: 3 [M10] Duress



Kicks Junds ass.
Hurts vamps with their 1BBB creature win- but takes a beating.
Sligh.... sigh.
Not many matchups vs Baneslayer, but when I do play it I beat it.
Expecting problems from boros Bushwacker.
[/b]
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jordman2



Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

um.... OMG i didnt know what spreading see did until i got done reading these posts i looked it up on Starcity and WOW!! that card man that card sucks the only time i used it is when i splashed blue for rite or replication atleast i think that is what its called anyways there should be no deck out there with this card in it maybe if your poor or dont have any cards u own that is a better fixer then THIS!! ahh still so so bad.... Shocked Crying or Very sad
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kaamos



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tome Scour?
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CrushU
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tome Scour's too slow most of the time.

The survival route to mill is one of the more consistent, it takes a traditional Control win condition (Stall until you can bring out something big) and gives it another one (Stall until you empty their deck). Without survival, you're trying to deck them faster than they can kill you, and that's REALLY hard to do. Aggro Mill doesn't exist. (Unless your starting hand has four archive traps in it. lol. Actually, speaking of, one thing you can consider is Trapmaker's Snare. It's an Instant.... >_> )

I've been looking more at Esper Mill myself, and liking the options of Path, DoJ and Wall of Denial vs aggro/Jund. Black will remove creatures very reliably, but every so often you play the monoblack Vamps, or the guy running Stags, (And of course Jund) and black's removal fizzles. Hence White's DoJ, Wall, Path, Journey. Crab isn't bad, but isn't terribly great. Cool if you fetch or terramorphic though. Milling with feet is always better than just milling.

As for the land control with the seas and mirages... You might want to throw a few islandwalk critters in just for threat? By themselves, turning opp's lands into islands usually just annoys, it doesn't slow reliably. (I messed around with a monoblue Serpent of Endless Seas + Mirages deck for a while in casual. It was lolzy that it kept fae at bay for quite some time before he could finally fly over for enough.) And of course if your opp MD's blue anyway, he doesn't mind at all.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jordman2 wrote:
um.... OMG i didnt know what spreading see did until i got done reading these posts i looked it up on Starcity and WOW!! that card man that card sucks the only time i used it is when i splashed blue for rite or replication atleast i think that is what its called anyways there should be no deck out there with this card in it maybe if your poor or dont have any cards u own that is a better fixer then THIS!! ahh still so so bad.... Shocked Crying or Very sad


fixer? Confused
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kaamos



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody plays mono blue in standard currently, and seas/mirage does have a pretty low utility vs some aggro/mono color decks.

But it seems that Jund is dominating the % of decks being played in tournaments by up to 70%, and its the deck to beat.

However, with a mill deck using islandwalkers as a threat more or less gives you the -20 life win condition in a single, burnable creature. So unless its the huge unblockable, its not worth putting in the deck.

You can only hope vs blue/color that you need less spells vs the non island lands they play. I do like whites removal and wall vs aggro/jund too, almost enough to playtest with it but, blue fills most of the needs of the deck and throwing in white makes me have to thin out almost everything because I need those Doj's (most important to a non creature deck)

Snare as an instant is a good idea, not sure what i'd cut out yet.
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