BG Rock.... Still playable??? i think so!!

Blinkoath182 · Joined: 24 Apr 2009 Posts: 6

hey everyone,

its been a while since ive seen a Rock deck around, so i made one and have been testing it out the past couple of days. Heres the list:

Lands:

Bayou x4
Bloodstained Mire x4
Twilight Mire x4
Swamp x5
Forest x2

Creatures:

Wall of Blossoms x4
Hypnotic Specter x4
Tarmogoyf x4
Birds of Paradise x3
Dark Confidant x3
Spiritmonger x2

Spells:

Maelstrom Pulse x4
Dark Ritual x4
Hymn to Tourach x
Duress x3
Pernicious Deeds x3
Sensei's Divining Top x2

***SB***
Pernicious Deeds x1
Vexing Shusher x4
Duress x1
Thoughtseize x4
Cranial Extraction x3
Mutilate x2

idk, everythings pretty self explanitory. anyone have anything to say? plz share and help out =)

Engrishskill · Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 472

That's an awful build.
The deck is still played in lagacy too, so I have no idea where the suggestion that the archetype is dead is coming from.

From looking at that build, I see a bad hybrid of Eva Green and Rock. Wall of blossoms with no recursion is bad, I mean wall of blossoms with recursion isn't very good, but without is inexcusable.
Birds isn't needed. Twilight mire sucks. Run more fetches, manlands or wastelands. In a format with swords as it's number one removal spell and no real use for colour switching, spiritmonger is a 6/6 for five with no evasion. Not bad, but not great. Tombstalker has evasion and comes down earlier...the notion that he plays poorly with goyf is a fallacy in that between discard and almost every deck in the format running fetches, they play fine together. No thoughtseizes is retarded and more hymn than duress is too. There really should be any hymns.
Three confidants is also silly. I will assume you cut one for something, which is a mistake because he will often get killed before a 'goyf. 1.5 is a format that loves card advantage: run more confidant. I am not a fan of birds in Rock anymore. You should be spending your early turn ripping good stuff out of your opponent's hand, not laying acceleration creatures...especially when you only have three. Three deeds can make sense, but in your deck, it looks like one was cut for something to make room. Hyppies need to come down on the first turn to be good, which is almost any deck in the format runs them alongside rituals.

No Grips in the sideboard shows that you aren't familiar with the format. The mutilates are quite puzzling when damnation is an unconditional wrath effect.

In conclusion: go to deckcheck and look at top eights and understand what top eights look like and what you need to be concerning yourself with beating.

Spyx · Joined: 31 Oct 2004 Posts: 1009

I've been playing GBW rock for quite some time now, piloted it to a 6-3 record on GP chicago (one win short of day 2). The white gives you acces to vindicate, which is still a lot better then pulse. Also canonist from the side is great for the ANT matchup, as discard just doesn't get there against the EOT mystical tutor draw.

I run a bit land heavy without wastelands, because all the decks needs is to reach the mid-long game and then your cards are just stronger then those off the opponent, and you have removal for every threat he plays.

Counterbalance isn't a problem, because you either make him discard it, you proactively own it with pridemage, or you destroy it with vindicate/deed. Deed is great against cb/top decks, dreadstill and goblins when you're on the play.
The decks main weakness is moon effects and back to basics, but there's a few basic lands in there that you can fetch in advance if you know you're up against a deck running them.
Rock is kind of an allround deck. You can beat any deck, but you can also lose against pretty much anything. Only dreadstill and countertop decks are really good matchups. Zoo and goblins are slighly worse but still winnable.

// Lands
2 [UNH] Swamp
1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
4 [B] Bayou
1 [UNH] Forest
1 [B] Savannah
3 [B] Scrubland
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [UNH] Plains
2 [FNM] Treetop Village

// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
2 [FD] Eternal Witness
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
2 [FUT] Tombstalker
3 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage

// Spells
4 [AP] Vindicate
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (1)
4 [FNM] Swords to Plowshares
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [AP] Pernicious Deed

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [AP] Pernicious Deed
SB: 4 [TE] Choke
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist

Blinkoath182 · Joined: 24 Apr 2009 Posts: 6

@Engrishskill: I wasnt saying that it was dead =X just decided to say something because it hasnt been in my meta for a long while now

@Spyx: I know Vindicate is powerful, i was just trying to utilize the BG aspect =X haha the way Rock used to be back in the day. I like the deck though, ill consider changing it over to BGW. I changed the decklist after Engrishskill commented, here is the current list

BG Rock

**Lands**

Bayou x4
Bloodstained Mire x4
Forest x2
Treetop Village x4
Polluted Delta x3
Swamp x4
Windswept Heath x4

**Creatures**
Hypnotic Specter x4
Dark Confidant x4
Tarmogoyf x4
Tombstalker x2

**Spells**
Maelstrom Pulse x4
Dark Ritual x4
Duress x4
Thoughtseize x4
Pernicious Deeds x3
Sensei's Divining Top x2

*SB**
Pernicious Deeds x1
Cranial Extraction x3
Vexing Shusher x4
Krosan Grip x4
Mutilate x2
Everlasting Torment x1

Engrishskill · Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 472

If you want to play Eva Green, then play Eva Green:

Spyx · Joined: 31 Oct 2004 Posts: 1009

I think what he's trying to say is you need to have a gameplan, try and be aggressive in the early game or go more for drawn out games.
Dark ritual gives card disadvantage in exchange for temp, while deed and top give you card advantage and quality, but they slow you down. Therefore deed and top should not be played in the same deck as dark ritual.

My deck is more of a slower version focussing on the mid-long game. A deck like that is great for homebrew lists. If you want to play aggresively with rituals and specters just netdeck eva green really, it's pretty much the best aggressive GB list out there.

Blinkoath182 · Joined: 24 Apr 2009 Posts: 6

I kno what you guys are trying to get at. Idk, im tryin to do a homebrew of the two. I kno it can work out =X just gatta work at it haha. Everyone plays the same shit nowadays, always netdecking. Just trying to keep things in my own taste =O

Engrishskill · Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 472

There are homebrews and then there are decks that are just stuff that is thrown together without any idea as to what you will do against various top tier decks.

In 1.5, you want to have a decisive plan against CB decks(threshthreshthresh etc), Goblins, Landstill, Merfolk, storm combo, aggro loam, Canadian Thresh and random lower-tier decks.

Rock decks' game plans typically go for early disruption to force opponents to go into the late game, which Rock will hopefully dominate with big creatures and deeds. While it's cool that some actually took advise rather than arguing to try to preserve a terrible deck that they posted to have improved( Confused

), you took some advise out of context: The deck you posted is a mish mash of Eva Green and Rock. I can see it winning a game or two, but against a 1.5 player that knows what he's doing and understands the format, you will be in trouble.

You have gone way overboard on the fetch lands too. Run seven or eight, not eleven.

Truth be told: Eva Green is not a deck that is doing terribly well right now. It still shows up for tournaments because it isn't like it can't still have the absurdly disruptive first two turns and follow it up with a huge goyf or stalker, but right now FoWs are seeing a lot of play as well as decks that can easily force Eva Green into the mid to late game, which is not where it wants to be. Generally, if Eva gets forced into the late game, it runs out of steam and loses. Deeds and tops won't really fix this problem. Recursion and card advantage will, which is why Rock would be a better choice overall if you had to choose between which of the two strategies to adopt for a deck.

You don't have to copy+paste a Rock deck. The core strategy of the deck is incredibly flexible and allows for many, many different builds, but there are always going to be superior cards to get the job done. If you want to make a homebrew, you will need to understand the format well enough to be able to make the right decisions on what cards to use to fill the roles as the most effective possible metagame foils. In case it hasn't clicked yet: Rock tends to be a deck that thrives on having a rough idea of what decks it is going to trying to foil. You don't need to know exactly because there are some very flexible pieces of hate in green and black(leyline, city of solitude, one mana discard, grip, choke, diabolic edict, engineered plague, maelstrom pulse, seal of primordium etc etc), but you do need to have an understanding of the format and how opposing decks operate.

As it stands, by looking at your sideboard and you deck, I don't see a lot of understanding of how the archetype works or what you need to be trying to beat. I see some good stuff mashed together.

Here are some examples of how flexible the archetype is:

This is my survival Rock build, which has been a favorite of mine for undefined metagames for a while now:

Blinkoath182 · Joined: 24 Apr 2009 Posts: 6

again, all you do man is bash,bash,bash, and throw deck lists at me.

ive been playing this game for 11 years adn 1.5 has been my format every since is started

yes, the i dont completely understand the meta atm cuz i just started playing about about a month or 2 ago.

when i ask for help id like specifics with reasons

no decklists and no demoralizing messeges telling me how i kno nothing XD

btw, i wasnt arguing to preserve a 'terrible' deck. if you notice i changed the deck considerably after your first comment and never said 2 words againts it <<

Engrishskill · Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 472

Read more thoroughly: I am pretty good at expressing myself. You don't need to find hidden meanings.

I posted all of that for your fucking benefit. Stop being all defensive. I've been playing for over eleven years and still learn stuff often.

I'm done posting to try to help you.

Edit: Unless you have awful reading comprehension all of the answers as to why both of your builds aren't great is there too. For someone with lots of experience, you don't seem to understand how to make a deck very well or interpret replies that are largely based on empirical data gathered from years of playing and studying a format. Everything is there. Read it over again carefully. When someone spends an hour or so typing for your benefit, the least you can do is take under ten minutes to read it over carefully.

Bye now.