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Possible New Fae


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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you call the deck fae but still manage to spell faerie fairy.

The build looks a little less than optimal, arcane sanctum could have replaced the borderposts a long time ago but it did not maybe it should have or maybe not coming into play tapped is more valueable.

What match up exactly is the mind funeral plan for?

I think jace should be main.
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GoneBananas
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

... I hope you are joking about mind funeral.
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would much rather play a normal Fae build. Though I played vs a U/R Fae deck. Main deck Double Negative seems like a great call. I am not sold on only having 10 black producing lands in Fae. Also swaping Agony Warp for Incinerate was interesting. What I liked the best was the sideboard.

3 x Pithing Needle
3 x Thoughtsieze
3 x Earwig Squad
2 x Thought Hemorrage
2 x Bituminous Blast
1 x Loxodon Warhammer
1 x Puppeteer Clique

Earwig Squad dropped off the map. I think that it is def playable in this meta. The only decks that can run it at this time is Fae or B/W Tokens.

This sideboard screams anti-combo. I am still testing the idea right now. Red for Double Negative is key to not giving up card/tempo advantage to Cascade. Incinerate was better then Agony Warp in some cases. (Stillmoon!)

If you don't want to try red then at least try Earwig Squad in the sideboard.
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Ggerg



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here's the problem with mind funeral:

for ease of understanding, let's assume you play it turn 3. your opponent has 50 cards in his deck. if he were to draw a card, the card he gets would be essentially random of all cards left in his library. this is true for all subsequent draws as well. your opponent revealing and removing any number of cards from the top of his deck is the same.
if you aim to "mill" 10 random cards, you should know going in to that play that your opponent's chances of drawing any card in his deck should be seen as exactly the same both before AND after the "mill" as you cannot control the cards revealed.
yes, you may reveal all cards that your opponent wants in his hand (although you may just end up revealing anathemancer, etc. too), but even in this situation, your opponent has many many more cards in his deck that are just as good as the ones you've milled. the ONLY time this milling could be justified as good, is when you mill a key card (such as cruel ultimatum in 5cc or mistbind clique in faeries) and you simply CANNOT expect this to happen with reliability, which is what you need to be able to expect from a spell in order to play it.

Bftw wrote:
and besides that, i've found most often the answers in your hand aren't nearly as good as the answers left in your deck.

the cards left in your deck are random, this is therefore irrelevant.

on borderpost: yes, the painlands suck, but borderpost sucks more. a hand with underground river + any other land + bitterblossom is generally exactly what you want to see, but if you replace that underground river with a borderpost, you either have to mulligan, or accept not playing bitterblossom turn two, which is just amazingly bad. the tempo you loose from playing that bitterblossom turn 3, when you could've had it turn 2 is just HUGE; game-breaking, even. this doesn't even mention the situations where your opponent couldn't deal with BB turn 2, but can turn 3 (you'll be tapped out, so any answer will do, and they are much more prevalent now...maelstrom pulse, esper charm, negate, broken ambitions, thoughtseize, tidehollow sculler are just the ones i can think of right now). bitterblossom is the main issue here, but borderposts screw with your development and tempo. basically, if at any point in the game you need a land, but draw 'post instead, you're screwed...mistbind and cryptic don't like 'post much either.

Quote:
jace is gay MB, i'm not going to give my opponent cards with a control deck. why not give them life with a burn deck? he usually comes in, draws me a few cards, and dies.


i'd venture to say that you're playing jace incorrectly (playing cards incorectly, and playing against sub-optimal players are probably a big part of why your testing indicates that choices such as mind funeral and borderpost are good choices). in almost every case, using jace's "+2" ability is the correct play. simply keeping jace alive, and keeping the cards flowing will generally win you the game, as you are able to stay untapped on your opponent's turn, and have spells to keep control of the game. fae's cards are both better and more streamlined/synergistic than those of your opponents. if you get bitterblossom or jace, and can protect it, you will win the game in almost every case.

..i'm willing to slide on faerie trickery, as it does deal with anathemancer, and is a straight-up counterspell (albeit at 3cc), but i probably wouldn't run it.

kay...that's my two cents. hope it helps.

p.s. as for the "test it, you'll see" style of thought, it may apply in some instances, but when the theory behind running a card/cards is fundamentally unsound, there's really no point.
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Ggerg



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bftw wrote:
by that logic i might as well play tidings or mulldrifter then, what's so rad about jace? and i'm never going to give my opponent cards unless i have to.

and i don't know what you're talking about with bitterblossom, it comes out t2 like all the time, borderpost or not, and with x2 posts they are RARELY in my opener. i see my secluded glen hit t1 9 games out of 10 ususally followed by an island for the blossom.

mind funeral. well, i can see that side of the argument. and i also think that being as it will never catch a counterspell unless you're opponent is holding 3 of them makes it worth it. i usually side in 3-4 at once, so lets say by t5-t7 i've already played it twice, and gotten some major threats (yes some, not all), and actually put a pretty nice dent on their manabase. potentially. even still i can't see a downside besides the sorcery speed at conv cost 3.

trickery. this is the nuts, i don't care. demigod, finks, anathemancer, the list goes on...it's really epic. i'll not budge on this one, lol.


the downside to playing mind funeral is that it does nothing you want to be doing. it does not help you win the game, which is the exact reason why your opponent should never counter it, and you should never play it.

i fail to see how by my logic you should be playing and expensive spell like drifter or tidings which you have to tap out for (tidings), or only gets you a 2 for 1. jace lets you keep mana up when you play him late, and you can actually tap down for him early if you he will survie to your next turn, as you will be able to protect it and win the game off the advantage he gains you.

playing a come into play tapped land over a non-come into play tapped land in a deck that wants to have 2 mana turn 2 100% of the time is statistically wrong. so is saying that you play a card which you have 4 of turn 1 in 90% of games.

4/60 + 4/59 + 4/58 + 4/57 + 4/56 + 4/55 + 4/54 =
.06667 + .06779 + 0.0689 + 0.0702 + 0.0714 + 0.0727 + 0.074 = .49166
so aproximately 49% of the time you will have secluded glen turn 1.
yes, this means the odds of having a 2-of instead of your 2nd and only other land are much lower than this, but the fact is, this still happens, and it will make you LOOSE A GAME YOU DO NOT NEED TO LOOSE if you were to play the painland. the % of games you loose because you have a painland is sooo soo sooo sooo much lower. these are facts. facts are what this card-choice should be based on, not conjecture
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Momir



Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted to try to stay away from trolling and flaming, but you, sir, are an idiot of EPIC proportions.

You've probably never really picked up a Fae deck, or played more than 10 games on MWS.

But you're probably right. I mean, EVERY PLAYER ON THE PLANET has to be wrong about Jace.
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dv8r



Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

momir: bad logic. it's happened before that the entire mtg playing community has been wrong, it can happen again.

BFtw: stop double posting and being so rude if you want people to give you serious advice. on jace: think of it like phyrexian arena that doesn't cost you life. you would play that right? now, yes, you have to give your opponent a card every 3, but you don't ever HAVE to give your opponent a card if they are short, and even if they kill jace, it will tend to require 2-3 mana to do so, making jace a bit like remand in tempo terms in the early game.
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Ggerg



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

basically the long and short of it is this:
jace gives you cards and keeps your life total high. that's all fae wants.
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Zoom



Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The math nerd in me forces me to offer the following correction:
If you have 4 copies of a card in your deck you have a 40% chance of having it in your starting 7, and a 45% of having it in your starting 8 on the draw.

Also, it is a common misconception that milling cards reduces your opponent's ability to draw relevant or threatening cards. Sure some games you mill both cruel ultimatums, or what have you. However, you are just as likely to mill the opponents weaker cards. Unless you are killing the opponent with mill, you can only be giving them an advantage due to flashback, unearth etc.

It bugs me when people post a deck to a forum and then argue back about every piece of criticism. Why did you post it? If it is so good, then secrecy can only make it stronger.
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Ggerg



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bftw wrote:
dv8r

i said before that i like to let jace give me a few, and yes, giving them one every 3 is a must, but homeboy told me +2 was the correct play every turn, and i laughed out loud.

and g1 isn't for jace, not if i pull a good hand, which i usually do.

i never asked for advice about jace, i know exactly what he can and can't do. i just wanted to get some helpful (helpful being the key word) advice, maybe there were better things i have overlooked, but calling someone a idiot because they like to side in different stuff over the norm? really? are these the proud magic players of today? sad little men who can't come unless you critize them? blow me all you faggots.

dv8r is cool though


um, kay..."homeboy" has been trying to help, as he believes you are running a very suboptimal list. homeboy told you that "in almost every instance, +2 is the right play." basically, keeping jace alive wins games. like...i'm not gonna go through my notes for someone who's being extremely rude, but i'd estimate that i loose less than 5% of games (both both g1, and g2) in which i untap with jace.

so, basically, dont be ridiculously rude to people who are attempting to give you assistance, or you'll find there's no one left to help
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Ggerg



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bftw wrote:
i wasn't having an argument with anyone until that dude said i was an idiot.

i'm all for critism. calling me an idiot just pisses me off. i look to the community for help, and get called an idiot. not just an idiot, and idiot of EPIC proportions.

in my playtesting, i have found it to be worthwhile. you say that it takes weaker cards as well, but consider the fae structure itself. what deck won't have generally better cards than fae? jund, bant, any nice aggro will have mad removal and burn, where as fae has....bitterblossom, and counters. if i can take a few threats away early, and save my counters for REAL targets, then i'll get the W. oh yes.


uh..what is the "it" your are referring too?"
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Momir



Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't like being called an idiot, stop being a fucking idiot.

At this point, everyone who reads this post should just assume he is a troll, and I don't think anyone can be as dumb and thick-headed as this guy. So do not feed him, do not offer him advice, do not argue with him. Simply reply with; 'You, sir, are a fucking idiot', or something along those lines.
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onecleanceli



Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gave up reading before I even finished page 1... I just wanna throw in my opinion (which I'm sure others already have) about how retarded this guy actually is.... you want to make a 'new' fae deck, yet you dont even understand Jace at all, and why/how he's played... give it up, go back to aggro, you dont deserve to play fae
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Momir



Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You, sir, are a fucking idiot.
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Momir



Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And stop posting
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