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AIG Thoughts


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Jacois



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1201

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just use 1 Progenitus. When the hell else are you going to have that chance?
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kumagmd



Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 307

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hell, use 4 progenitus! Get rid of Noble Heirarch and put in Quillspike. They combo with Devoted to activate the Bridges. Then tell us how it goes, I'd like to try out my own version!
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zeratul734



Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just thinking to myself, "faeries got the love, then boat brew; I think post-rotation, i'm gonna play a green deck".

and so it begins Very Happy
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kumagmd



Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 307

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any thoughts about adding Mayael, the Anima to that list? That'd be sick. We'd have to up the cost of the deck due to filterlands, but that'd mean we can add Realm Razer! Hell, it can even be block constructed, relying on Mayael to run Progenitus! WOOT! It might not win by much, but it'd be BOMBS AWAY!

PS. What are we gonna do about Sower?
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GoneBananas
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cloud to the thresher!
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tcook589



Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cloudthresher seems useful but I'm not sure it's better than Deus of Calamity. Deity of Scars has been weak for me so far, and even though Impromptu Raid is useless in multiples, I wouldn't drop it below 4. As was mentioned before, this deck will easily get to 2 or 3 activations a turn.

I Dramatic Entrance for multiple reasons. The ability to play things at Instant speed is very useful against any deck with blue. Because of that, I think Progenitus should be considered as at least a 3-of, though having it in your hand without a Dramatic Entrance is frustrating to say the least.

Realm Razor seemed like a win-more, but the mana base could certainly stretch to accommodate a second/third color.

Other ideas I thought of included Empyrial Archangel and Chameleon Colossus.

This deck has options that need to be explored.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tcook589 wrote:
Cloudthresher seems useful but I'm not sure it's better than Deus of Calamity. Deity of Scars has been weak for me so far, and even though Impromptu Raid is useless in multiples, I wouldn't drop it below 4. As was mentioned before, this deck will easily get to 2 or 3 activations a turn.

I Dramatic Entrance for multiple reasons. The ability to play things at Instant speed is very useful against any deck with blue. Because of that, I think Progenitus should be considered as at least a 3-of, though having it in your hand without a Dramatic Entrance is frustrating to say the least.

Realm Razor seemed like a win-more, but the mana base could certainly stretch to accommodate a second/third color.

Other ideas I thought of included Empyrial Archangel and Chameleon Colossus.

This deck has options that need to be explored.


This Dramatic Entrance.dec idea has been explored before, and like all other combo decks, it doesn't work. (or if it does, it gets banned)

The more unplayable creatures you have in your deck, the worse the deck becomes.

Just think of it. Not only do you need Dramatic Entrance in hand. You also need Progenitus in hand. And 5 mana on the board.

In order to have a chance to get all three at the same time, you need massive draw or draw-fix in there.

The thing is that while decks like Dragonstorm could afford to wait for the components to show up (because they win the game when the deck goes off), a Dramatic Entrance combodeck does not win the turn it goes off.

Arguably, AIG could possibly be a better deck without any form of combo or tech. That means no Dramatic Entrance and no Impromptu Raid. Just big creatures and acceleration.
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ynnus



Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are some of the decks ive been messing around with for the last week or 2.

// Lands
4 [10E] Treetop Village
10 [10E] Forest (4)
4 [SHM] Wooded Bastion
4 [10E] Brushland

// Creatures
3 [LRW] Garruk Wildspeaker
4 [SHM] Deus of Calamity
4 [EVE] Primalcrux
2 [LRW] Vigor
3 [SHM] Farhaven Elf
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
2 [EVE] Regal Force
3 [LRW] Cloudthresher

// Spells
4 [10E] Rampant Growth
3 [10E] Loxodon Warhammer
3 [SHM] Tower Above
3 [EVE] Snakeform

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [CFX] Wall of Reverence
SB: 4 [SHM] Wilt-Leaf Liege
SB: 3 [SHM] Fracturing Gust
SB: 4 [SHM] Guttural Response


// Lands
10 [10E] Forest (4)
3 [LRW] Mosswort Bridge
4 [10E] Brushland
4 [SHM] Wooded Bastion

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Deus of Calamity
4 [EVE] Primalcrux
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
2 [EVE] Regal Force
4 [SHM] Devoted Druid
4 [LRW] Seedguide Ash
4 [CFX] Wall of Reverence
4 [SHM] Woodfall Primus
3 [10E] Llanowar Elves

// Spells
4 [SHM] Impromptu Raid
2 [CFX] Path to Exile

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [SHM] Wilt-Leaf Liege
SB: 3 [SHM] Fracturing Gust
SB: 3 [SHM] Guttural Response
SB: 4 [LRW] Eyes of the Wisent
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
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marulo



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been working on a list of my own, maybe some of the ideas in here might help.

2 Mosswort Bridge
18 Forest

4 Noble Hierarch
2 Progenitus
4 Woodfall Primus
3 Primalclux
3 Cloudthresher
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Farhaven Elves
4 Devoted Druid

4 Impromptu Raid
4 Dramatic Entrance
4 Overgrowth

Sb:
2 Pithing Needle
2 Primal Command
3 Garruk
4 Gutural Response
4 Wilt Leaf Liege.

I cutted Mosswort Bridges to 2 because i continuosly failed to play its ability before i won the game or lost it. In fact the ability is most likely played only once Primalcrux or Progenitus are in play. Also I dropped Deus and Deity of Scars since none of them had shroud-like effects either, and path to exile seems to be a very relevant card atm.
Cutted Primalcrux to 3 given it does not have shroudlike effects, nor flash, so heīs quite a vulnerable creature and means no card advantage to me.
Cloudthresher is worth being played since it helps in your game against fae and token deck. It also has flash which is an advantage against control, and it has a decent p/t for a 6cc creature.
Farhaven Elf was a response to volcanic fallout and such. Since early mass removal hurts your mana base i thought about including something that would accelerate my game even after gone. It also has a body, so it can block.
I am not happy playing a full set of Impromptu Raid. To be honest, sometimes it just backfires and leaves me without important draws. However since i am playing Progenitus, it actually does work, and i have won games mana-ramping and then paying for Raidīs ability until i drop a progenitus.
Regarding the Sb changes: Primal Command came in handy against most burn decks and Token deck, it rarely works against UW Lark because by the turn i played it (at least 3rd turn) Lark almost always had a counter. Wilt-Leaf Liege is pretty good against blightning burn cruel control since the most important drops they have against you make you discard.
I dropped Oversouls from Sb since Garruk already does better against most control decks, and Primalclux plus Command is ussually enough to face Burn.
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Ghostfoo



Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marulo wrote:
I have been working on a list of my own, maybe some of the ideas in here might help.

2 Mosswort Bridge
18 Forest

4 Noble Hierarch
2 Progenitus
4 Woodfall Primus
3 Primalclux
3 Cloudthresher
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Farhaven Elves
4 Devoted Druid

4 Impromptu Raid
4 Dramatic Entrance
4 Overgrowth

Sb:
2 Pithing Needle
2 Primal Command
3 Garruk
4 Gutural Response
4 Wilt Leaf Liege.

I cutted Mosswort Bridges to 2 because i continuosly failed to play its ability before i won the game or lost it. In fact the ability is most likely played only once Primalcrux or Progenitus are in play. Also I dropped Deus and Deity of Scars since none of them had shroud-like effects either, and path to exile seems to be a very relevant card atm.
Cutted Primalcrux to 3 given it does not have shroudlike effects, nor flash, so heīs quite a vulnerable creature and means no card advantage to me.
Cloudthresher is worth being played since it helps in your game against fae and token deck. It also has flash which is an advantage against control, and it has a decent p/t for a 6cc creature.
Farhaven Elf was a response to volcanic fallout and such. Since early mass removal hurts your mana base i thought about including something that would accelerate my game even after gone. It also has a body, so it can block.
I am not happy playing a full set of Impromptu Raid. To be honest, sometimes it just backfires and leaves me without important draws. However since i am playing Progenitus, it actually does work, and i have won games mana-ramping and then paying for Raidīs ability until i drop a progenitus.
Regarding the Sb changes: Primal Command came in handy against most burn decks and Token deck, it rarely works against UW Lark because by the turn i played it (at least 3rd turn) Lark almost always had a counter. Wilt-Leaf Liege is pretty good against blightning burn cruel control since the most important drops they have against you make you discard.
I dropped Oversouls from Sb since Garruk already does better against most control decks, and Primalclux plus Command is ussually enough to face Burn.


Interesting...My testing has so far shown that Woodfall Primus is lacking. This is due to its inability to be casted turn three or 4, (without the help of bridge or dramatic entrance) and because he can only target non creature permanents. If anything, its a 2 of card as it does not belong in your starting hand although i have cut them completely / relegated them to SB.

In regards to Progenitus, he can only belong (and should) if Dramatic Entrance is included as a 4 of (maybe 3). He should be cut without at least 2 Mosswort Bridge, 3 Impromptu Raid, and 3 Dramatic Entrance. And if you are playing this deck as such, he should only be a 1 of.

I too have found deity of scars as inneffecient but not oversoul of dusk. This guy is really great. I usually include him as a 4 of. You can think of this guy as an evasion creature instead of a trampler. So he can usually pass through as well as block without taking damage. Of course, he should come out when playing a G or W deck but he is usually outstanding playing Boat Brew, Bant, Faeries and anything running Plumeveil as their blocker. If he does come out, I suggest sideboarding in Deity of Scars as this deck must hit its turn three drop of a fatty. It must.

Cloudthreser, he is a definite. Some people have pointed out that Sower of Temptation can really wreck this deck. Well hears your answer. And he can help with blue counter/control. Since he doesnt have trample, or evasion of any kind (which includes trample) he should be kept as a three of.

Ive tried Primal Command and have posted good results. If you use Primal, it should be kept as a 2 or 3 of. Its great for searching out a progenitus with Dramatic Entrance in your hand. Like any command card, its good and effecient. Definitely in Sideboard.

There are some versions that do not run Dramatic Entrance. I have also tried not running this card, replacing it with 3-4 Fattys instead. doing this, i noticed that my wins were decreasing. I was unable to suprise the opposition during combat phases (This includes laying down a deus through Dramatic Entrance, pumping the primalcrux to give enough trample damage as my opponent believed he had another turn left and only blocked with 1 creature), draw out counters, or play progenitus. Although people have already extolled Dramatic Entrances virtues, I must as well. Its one of the few tricks this deck has. The argument for not running it is that top decking a Dramatic entrance is unwanted and even more so when impromptu raiding. I understand this argument, its valid. But my results have concluded that this deck wins more if dramatic entrance is included than when its not.

So what of the deck? Heres what I think:

Mana Accel -

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Devoted Druid
4 Overgrowth
4 Noble Hierarch

Creatures -

4 Deus of Calamity
3-4 Primalcrux
2-3 Cloudthresher (rest of the set in Sideboard)
4 Oversoul of Dusk
2 Progenitus
1 - Deity of Scars

Utility -

3 Impromptu Raid
4 Dramatic Entrance

Ive had problems deciding the accurate manabase. Its either 18 forests or 19 forests accompanied by 3 or 2 mosswort bridges. You definitely do not want 4 bridges, they will decrease your chances of dropping a turn three fatty.


So what cards wreak havoc on this deck?

Path to Exile - Anyone know a good answer for this card? I dont think there is one as of yet...

Kitchen Finks - Even if you do trample over it, the life regen cancels it out. Its a major problem and I have lost many games to it.

Im not sure what to do about these cards, My first thought is Broodmate Dragon for evasion around Finks as well as Path to Exile. But then that really screws our mana base.

My Second though is that this deck needs a fat Hasty creature. This would be ideal as I feel if we can get a turn 3 hasty on board, the game drastically changes into our favor. Although im at a loss as to what creature is fat and hasty and can fit into this deck.

Im still playing this deck heavily and will keep analyzing for some time so you can expect a more exhaustive look later on in the week.









I might write up a longer more exhausted analysis later.
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marulo



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. I did cut off Oversouls out from sb, but as a Md card now i think its worth it. I still find it vulnerable to Path to Exile and Wraths, which will come in 5cc post sb games. I dont have a direct answer to it though.
I also noticed early pyroclasm and volcanic fallout disrupt my mana building greatly. This happens when i play against Swans control. Farhaven Elf was just a thought, but if anyone has a better answer to it, please let us all know.
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Ghostfoo



Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wrath of God im not so much worried about since you can play around it. The problem starts with Path to Exile. This card by itself can disrupt AIG because we rely on one or two big creatures where other aggro decks overwhelm with lots of small creatures. Our threats are big and supposed to be hard to kill....fucking PTE.

Another threat includes Kitchen Finks. That bastard, he wont die and when we do trample over his ass, life gain negates the trample damage. Hes a pain.

So what can we use to get around these things?

Well how about All In Green/Black/Red? Smile

This uses Broodmate Dragon, Hellkite overlord, and Rite of Consumption.

Broodmate is in because it can get around Finks, and half of it stays even after a PTE. Plus he only costs 6 so he can fit easily in.

Hellkite Overlord is now in instead of Progenitus (so hes a 1 or 2 of) because 1. He can be cast without dramatic entrance or bridge and 2. He is hasty so he can immediately win you the game.

Rite of Consumption, this card is really just perfect for this deck. It can push through that last bit of damage as well as give you some more mileage impromptu raiding.

Now to do this we have to exchange llanowar elves for Birds of Paradies and I switched Overgrowth to Fertile ground.


What do you guys think of these changes? How do you build a mana base for this kind of deck? One thing im horrible at is building mana bases.
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caesarthehun



Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 186

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For fat haste, imo Boggart ram gang, not exactly large, but often critical for RDW
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Ghostfoo



Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arguments for and agaisnt Broodmate:

First we need to look at what our two major problems are. From my testing it seems these are Path to Exile and Kitchen Finks. Our deck relies on laying down 1 or 2 fattys that are supposed to be a major threat and hard to get rid of. Path To Exile is a problem because it can get ride of ANY of our creatures thus removing all or most of our threat in one swing. We need to find a creature that can be resilient to that. Kitchen Finks is problematic due to the fact that even when we do trample over it, the life gain negates the dmg. And then it sticks around for another turn. Its rediculuous.

Why Broodmate? Broodmate takes care of both problems at once. It flys, so we dont have to worry about trample damage over finks (trample and flying = forms of evasion) and it produces a token which means that Path To Exile's dmg is mitigated. Not only this, but you get 2 blockers for 1 cost of a creature.

What are the costs of running broodmate? Well, mana costs for one and the replacement of creatures for two. To be able to play broodmate, you must now run 4 birds of paradise instead of 4 llanowar elves. You must also run karplusan forests as well as llanowar wastes. I considered running fertile ground but found it just doesnt have the mana accell needed for this deck. You will also be permanently running dramatic entrance as this will be another way to cast broodmate if you dont have the mana. Another cost is that you will need to sacrifice either primalcrux or cloudthresher or a little bit of both. You cant replace your deus or oversould or deity since you need those for you 5 CC spot. Brood requires the removal of a 6cc spot.

Does it fit into the curve? Sure, if you tweak your mana base correctly, (which you can) then youll be able to cast broodmate. It takes up the 6cc slot.

Does it work? quite honestly, sometimes you need primal crux instead of broodmate. Sometimes you need broodmate. Can you play both? yes but then you sacrifice cloudthresher which helps against other decks and cards (faeries, sower, 5cc). So which is better? I tend to lean towards the already all green vintage AIG deck. I think its more consistent. But just like march madness teams who rely on the three point shot, AIG lives by its big fatties and dies by its big fatties. Its a freakin crap shoot.

Sidenote, good tech is either maindecking kitchen finks or SB them to make your deck a little more resilient. Finks is great for other aggro decks but bad against control. So you can think of them as the opposite of dramatic entrance. DE good for control, Finks good for aggro.

Rite of Consumption belongs SB or a couple main deck. Im already running 4 llanowar wastes with bop to cast this card or bring it in from SB. This card is great tech and wins games.

And last but not least, Realm Razor does not work with this deck. Ok that may be a too brash, but if you cast realm razor and your opponent has the answer, which there are answers, then your losing your fertile grounds on your lands. This is card disadvantage. Plus hes not that big, if you cast him later on the game, he may be worthless (like cast against a wall of reverence or plumeveil). This i think makes for strong arguments against the addition for the card.

Thoughts?
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marulo



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If i were to splash it would be blue and white for Empyrial Archangel since it stalls Kithkins and Red and you can generate this mana with hierarch too. I am not in for splashing 2 colors however, specially Red and Black, since it takes away consistency.
The truth is i am not in for taking out Cloudthresher from Md. It has won me enough games against several decks just by resolving: Itīs a strong card against fae, token deck and cruel control, since it has flash by itself and does not need DE to get into play at instant speed.
But since it has bad synergy with BoP, iīd rather not splash other colors and leave elves. Therefore i wouldnt splash Broodmates.
PE only affects the deck in bad ways when you are facing either token deck or kith. Token deck can be handled if you are able to DE a Primus and then play Cloudthresher.
I agree with the Sb finks and in environments with too many RDW or Blightning and Kith they must be great, however i do not consider them such a threat in my opponents side of the table. They might be really consistent but as long as one of your fatties is in play heīs just not good enough. It is PE we most worry about.
Besides all this, this is a fun deck to play (wether it is tier 2 or whatever), but that does not mean we cant make an effort to make it better. Personally i think it has good consistent threats to do well against some tier1 matches so in small metagames it should do well.
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