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Tier 1 Zombies



 
Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Standard (T2) Decks

Is this deck a viable tier 1 contender?
YES
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
No
85%
 85%  [ 17 ]
YOU'RE a viable tier 1 contender!
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 20

Author Message
darkjet17



Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:23 am    Post subject: Tier 1 Zombies Reply with quote

I have this zombie deck that I have been testing a lot and have had a lot of success with, but I have yet to test it in any serious competition. I have a bit of trouble w RDW but 4 Mark of Asylum (and taking out Thoughtseize) improves the matchup greatly. Any input would be appreciated.

4 Fetid Heath
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Spawning Pool
4 Swamp
8 Plains

4 Thoughtseize
3 Path to Exile
4 Nameless Inversion
4 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Profane Command
4 Stillmoon Cavs
4 Death Baron
4 Lord of the Undead
2 Wall of Reverence
4 Graveborn Muse

SB:
4 Mark of Asylum
4 Celestial Purge
1 Profane Command
4 Lapse of Certainty
2 Oblivion Ring

Synergies: Death Baron + Spawning Pool. A regenerating 2/2 w deathtouch. Nameless Inversion + Lord of the Undead= infinite. Crib swap was also a consideration but the 3 spot is pretty crowded.

Weaknesses: There's a lot of life-loss w Muse and Thoughtseize so I thought I could use some life-gain to offset this. I've had to kill my own muses a number of games to stay alive, and that's no good. I've considered Spirit Link (can be used on opponents creature in a bind), Loxodon Warhammer, Consume Spirit, Syphon Life, or Rite of Consumption. Thoughts?
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are planning on having Death Baron or Lord of the Undead in play for many turns, along with one or more other creatures.

And you are not planning on being very fast.

Those two game plans aren't going well together. There are some facts to magic that you need to keep in mind:

* All your win conditions will be killed or will not be sufficient.

* Your answers will not be sufficient to stop the opponent from gutting you.

* You will not get the combo(s) of your game-plan and any theoretical synergies between cards in your deck are too weak anyways.

* All your spells will be countered, or if they aren't, they won't change anything.

* Your game-plan is flawed.


Now, how on earth can you possibly win, you say? You will, if you build the deck to circumvent those built-in weaknesses to your best ability. That is the starting point of deck-building, not the belief that you will succeed in what you are attempting to do.
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darkjet17



Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well i appreciate the input vedrfolner, despite the condescention.

i've found the 8 md hand rapage (thoughtseize & tidehollow) serve pretty well to eliminate board sweepers and/or counters, so my game plan goes off surprisingly well.

also lord of the undead, muse, and profane command provide me with good card advantage, and if my thoughtseize/sculler shows removal, i usually play other guys as fodder & keep my lord until all removal has been used so i can start to rebuild & net a card every turn.

i will concede that it's not the fastest deck in the world, but it's not worth it to play sub-par cards like festering goblin to speed it up.
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Sprouts



Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im testing your deck with some modifications, one of them being the addition of viscera dragger, i think he is really good in this deck, as you have few 2 drops. Also,i think you made a mistake when writing your manabase. Finally 12 3 drops is too much. I would run the lords only and leave the cavalier in the sb ( i changed him for the dragger)
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to point out that the asterix-points were not aimed at your deck, but rather deckbuilding in general.

It is not your fault that zombies aren't really a viable strategy in Standard right now - there are simply not enough good 1&2 drop zombies out there to make the best ability of the lords useful - namely pump several creatures at once for lots of damage.

But since you really want to make a zombie deck work, I suggest ditching Death Baron, since Deathtouch isn't really useful in Constructed. Also drop Wall of Reverence.

This will help your curve a lot (14 3-drops won't work). Instead, add Dregscape Zombie. I think this is better advice than removing Cavalier, because it is by far the best Zombie.

The 2 last slots could be used for Ajani Goldmane, for example. It doubles as pump 5-6 and lifegain in a pinch.
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Benobi



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I think Zombies have a chance, in the right metagame. My playgroup put together a similar deck last year for States, but we tried to make it a sort of controlling build, similar to Faeries. Here's what we came up with (keep in mind this is pre-CFX still):

4 Mutavault
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Fetid Heath
12 Swamp

4 Death Baron
4 Lord of the Undead
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Viscera Dragger
1 Shriekmaw

4 Nameless Inversion
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Thoughtseize
4 Unmake
3 Profane Command

SB: 3 Stillmoon Cavalier
SB: 3 Crib Swap
SB: 2 Infest
SB: 4 Bitterblossom
SB: 3 Liliana Vess


The idea was to play heavy control early on - the only creature that came into play before turn 5 or so was either the Sculler to eat up their hand or the 'maw getting Evoked. The creatures didn't come into play until your opponent was out of options, and then you took advantage of the fact that you had eight Lords, and the fact that you could get draw or kill loops going via Lord of the Undead and either Nameless Inversion or a cycled Viscera Dragger.

The biggest problem the deck ran into was that it couldn't get around Stillmoon Cavalier - in fact, the deck went 4-4 at States, and three of the four losses were due to at least one game going to a turn 3 Stillmoon Cavalier (But two of the wins were sweeps against Fae, so huzzah).

I know my friend independently updated the deck since then, but I don't know for sure how he did it. I know he said that Bitterblossoms were entirely extraneous and he no longer uses those, but other than that I know nothing about the changes he's made, only that the maindeck has stayed pretty much intact. Again, it hasn't been updated for Conflux (PtE certainly can find a home here), but it's somewhere to start at least.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other route to go is more aggro:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
2 [CFX] Ancient Ziggurat
3 [EVE] Fetid Heath
3 [SHM] Sunken Ruins
3 [10E] Underground River
3 [10E] Caves of Koilos
4 [SHM] Reflecting Pool
6 [LRW] Swamp (4)

// Creatures
4 [CFX] Zombie Outlander
4 [ALA] Tidehollow Sculler
4 [ALA] Dregscape Zombie
4 [ALA] Death Baron
4 [10E] Lord of the Undead
2 [MOR] Reveillark

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
3 [LRW] Profane Command
4 [LRW] Nameless Inversion
3 [CFX] Path to Exile

It is untested, but you get the idea.
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Acid_Christ



Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 799

PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

where the hell are the Stillmoons?
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