Let's make Apprentice better.

DaRossa · Joined: 02 Feb 2009 Posts: 2

Please answer this little poll. This is about a little project I have in mind (actually, semi-developed) to make Apprentice to be run in a faster and more comfortable way. That would mean that you'd use less the mouse, which is painful, as well as optimizing the keystrokes necessary to perform actions such as "viewing the top four cards of your library, sending one to your hand, and moving the remaining three to the bottom of the library". With Apprentice's available shortcuts, this takes some time and people get bored. I thought about a method to make it last no more than 2 or 3 seconds to play an Impulse in Apprentice.

This is because no one else appears to care about Apprentice; version 2.0 project has been discontinued and the sourceforge page contains no files at all. And there are the security issues also to make it even less motivating to play.

However I like Apprentice for it's intuitive interface and gameplay, no need for proprietary software or cracked MWS's. Apprentice is classic and lite. Many people love it.

So please answer this poll honestly. This may motivate me to end the development of the application that interacts with Apprentice and lets the game flow more dynamically.

Trotsky1 · Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 1672

There is no point in devolping apprentice for competative play as there is a completely untracebale cheat program for it. So you just get random cheats winning with terrible decks, which is no good for anyone.

Craze · Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 5675 Location: Indiana, U

Apprentice has a cheat program that is very hard to trace, not to mention it's inability to use wishes. Also the whole "flips" issue because soo many apprentice users are walled and can't host a game.

Overall the flaws are too great, which is why the league switched 100% to MWS two or so years ago.

Delicious · Joined: 08 Jun 2007 Posts: 818

basically, the best way to make Apprentice better is to uninstall it and install MWS

TugaChampion · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 567

Actually it would be downloading MTGO, install it and pay 10 dollars to activate your account.

Craze · Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 5675 Location: Indiana, U

DaRossa · Joined: 02 Feb 2009 Posts: 2

Ok then!
But the problem is that MWS is payware too, and I'm pretty sure it's not even considered an option to discuss cracked versions in here (so the game could become universal). Too sad the Apprentice developers abandoned the project.

Craze · Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 5675 Location: Indiana, U

Dr_Moo · Joined: 26 Nov 2004 Posts: 1013

I encourage everyone to read this article by Zvi Mowshowitz:

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/9925_VHS_Betamax_and_DVD_MWS_Apprentice_and_Magic_Online.html

Whether or not MWS is better for tournament play (and even Apprentice's most fervent supporters would have to admit that is for any format where Wishes are legal or any tournament with a cash/product prize), Apprentice is clearly better for playtesting.

I understand the reasoning in switching all Masters to MWS. I understand the reasoning in switching all Legacy/Vintage events to MWS.

I completely fail to see the reasoning in switching the entire league over to MWS exclusively (yea, there's a #apprentice. With 10 people in it. And no tournaments).

More than that, I completely fail to see how everyone was okay with this, how Apprentice was abandoned.

"You can't use Wishes on Apprentice!"
"You can cheat on Apprentice!"

I hope all the wasted time on Workstation is worth it.

tin_cup · Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 12

tin_cup · Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 12

And here is what a reader answered to this article (Icouldn't agree more with him):

Here's why everyone uses the phases in MWS Zvi:

Double click on a step to perform that step.

Don't hit Ctrl + U. Double click on -your- untap step. It untaps your permanents.

Double click on the draw step to...well, you get the idea.

Apprentice also doesn't have indicators (ie, arrows) that you can draw to permanents, you must physically move the cards around. No pictures, bugs, no server browser...

This is the ole "Old Dogs New Tricks" syndrome. You used Apprentice for a long time, obviously. MWS is new; foreign. You don't understand it. There are a few quirks, and it is dogged and forgotten.

Somehow giving each player their own playspace, steps which can help with all sorts of things (when to know your combat step is over is important in many instances, etc etc), not to mention indicators and the intricate things an advanced user can do such as put damage on the stack and assign damage to various permanents using Ctrl + click...

I could go on, but someone who primarily uses MWS and tries Apprentice will have the same article, just vice versa.

Avata · Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 398

TugaChampion · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 567

I used to prefer appr but when I got used to MWS and stopped using appr for a long time, and one day I used it, it felt very strange.

I actually think appr has less bugs.

And about phases: who cares? You don't need them.

Craze · Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 5675 Location: Indiana, U

Using phases on MWS makes the game superior in several ways.

1) it teaches newer players the actual phases, which helps them learn the combat steps as well as priority.

2) it settles arguments.

"Before declare attackers, I shock your Ismaru"
"NO YOU SHOULD OF TOLD ME BEFORE I TAPPED IT!!"
"See that step between the post combat main phase, and the declare attackers phase? Yeah you gotta actually use that..."

3) it keeps track of turns, as well as helps clear up whether or not you are attacking or just tapping your creatures randomly -.-

Using the Arrows (in MWS) improves game play a lot over not using them (in appr or just period).

1) With the option of attacking plainswalkers, it helps unconfuse what otherwise would be a simple event.

2) Helps demonstrate and show the stack.

3) Helps show what permanents are effected by a spell.

4) Helps make the blockers/attackers thing a lot clearer.

Using Images (on MWS) improves game play over not using them or using the blank cards on apprentice.

1) As said before, it helps associate what a new card actually looks like making the overall game faster in real life.

2) It makes it so you don't become confused by potential patch errors.

3) It allows one to actually see the mana costs rather then to guess what they are by seeing something like [R/W] [R/W] [R/

4) Allows one to see the SET and rarity easier. (No sometimes we don't recognize the initials)

Using Wishes on MWS is better then not being able to use them on Apprentice.

1) Because in real life, you can use wishes.

2) Because decks are better, aka more fun to play, with wishes.

Using the servers on MWS is better rather then flipping a coin in an apprentice tournament.

1) Playing actual mtg is fun.

2) Entire tournaments are not decided literally by coin flips.

3) It allows you to play everyone and not just the 10% of the league who is NOT walled.

Using the MWS deck editor is better for deck designing then using the Apprentice deck editor.

1) More filters and options for the filters.

2) You are able to use more detailed filters.

3) You can actually use the Apprentice filter if you want ON MWS.

Have I made my point, or should I go on?

TugaChampion · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 567

I don't agree with all of those.

Using phases is usually pointless and time wasting. I know the phases but irl you don't keep saying "I pass priority wanna make anything?" for every phase.

Sure if I'm playing against let's say faeries, I'll wait a bit on upkeep and I use the pre-combat attack phase. If you actually don't give your opp time to say anything and just attack you're just giving him information about how you're gonna attack and he'll still be able to tap you or not with cryptic, pestermite or w/e.

Numbher 3) of the phases is stupid... I mean it's probably convoke...

Arrows are nice however they're the cause of most bugs in mws. But yeah they're pretty good.

I don't use images on mws. Takes too much space. I got used to it and don't really need them. I don't play limited in MWS just constructed so usually I already know what the cards do.

MWS servers aren't that good but it sure is better than flipping. However you're exagerating. When I used appr, sometimes using hamachi I only had to flip very few times. Like 1% of the matchs probably.

MWS filter still sucks because if you write seize it doesn't go to thoughtseize.