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Horde of Notions


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FusionFire



Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 248

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:36 pm    Post subject: Horde of Notions Reply with quote

Horde of Notions WUBRG
Vigilance, trample, haste
5/5
WUBRG: You may play target Elemental card from your graveyard without paying its mana cost.

ok, now unless i'm mistaken that means i can pay the cost and "play" target Elemental card (lets use mulldrifter as an example)
because of the way its worded, that means that what ever card I "target" still can only be played under the normal casting rules right? (ie i cant do that EOT with a mulldrifter)....right?

Second question is if I target muldrifter, can i claim i'm "paying" the evoke cost so it comes into play, triggers the ability and then goes back into the GY?

Thanks!!
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Coonan



Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) *wrong, edited by CMA-Flippi

2) No, you can't.
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

connan is wrong on the first part. you can play creatures eot with it
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SniperMayer



Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 290

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ability helps you play the drifter which is instant. The fact that drifter is a creature doesn't count. You can do it EOT unless the ability is countered.

EDIT: This is just like Makeshift Mannequin. The same happens. The only thing is that Horde makes the same thing from his ability and you don't have to waste a card for this. Smile
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DARKING
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 256

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1.- You may play the creature card when Horde of Notions ability resolves. Since you can play the Notions ability any time you could play an instant, you can play a mulldrifter at eot. The same is true for cards with similar wordings, like the Hideaway lands and Guile.
All this abilities ask you wheter to play the card on resolution. If you say yes, you play it at that moment. If you say no, the card will remain where it is, and cannot play it again this way unless you play the ability again.

2.- No, you can't evoke mulldfifter this way. The mulldrifter will be played as usual, not with evoke mode on.
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Blancoke



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr_Moo wrote:
hawt is correct.

Read the card, people.
"You may play target Elemental..."

You can only play creature spells during your main phase when the stack is empty. This is always true, regardless of how you are playing the spell.

Unless you know the answer, you shouldn't be posting.


I especially like this part

Like Dark said, it's the same with hideway lands. You can play creatures on instantspeed with this ability.
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Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And, in case there was still any doubt:

Horde of Notions.

1) You play the creature while the activated ability is resolving. Normally you couldn't play anything then, not even instants, so 'normal timing' goes out the window (just like Hideaway lands, as has been pointed out). Any time you can play the activated ability, you can play the creature spell.

This is because the rules are permissive, not prohibitive. They don't say 'you can't play creatures unless it's your main phase, the stack is empty and you have priority' thereby outruling all other times. They just say 'you can play creatures...'. So if something else comes along and creates a new time at which to play creatures, the rules are fine with it. In this case, Horde of Notions creates such a time, when its ability is resolving. Spells don't have 'timing restrictions' unless they give them to themselves, like Master Warcraft.

So, in conclusion, you can play the creature whenever you can play the ability, like an instant.

2) You are already using an alternative way of playing it, you can't use two alternative ways of playing something at the same time.


And, once again, try to be polite when you're correcting people, especially when you're wrong (i.e. not 100% sure about the answer).
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DARKING
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 256

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One way to know if a card tells you to play it right at that moment, or if only you can play it at its usual speed, is by looking at the text. Cards that only let you play it at its normal speed normally give you a longer duration to do so and not tell you to play them right away, example is Spelljack or Knacksaw Clique. These cards gave you a longer duration to play them (in this case, the whole game and the current turn, respectively) and thus its cards can only be played at the usual speed.
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mTk-Away
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think of suspend. If it wouldn't be possible for a spell or ability to break the "timing rules", suspend would be a dead horse.

In other words: Horde's playing (or not playing, if you choose so, as it's "may") happens at the time the activated ability resolves.
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FreshVeggies



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm suprised we had to debate this
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JeZeus



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 225

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if you have ever played with Horde of Notions, you wouldn't be surprised at how often this 'has' to be debated in game. It get's even more confusing when you are using cards such as nameless inversion or crib swap instead of your standard 'elemental' cards.
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xiko



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the simple answer of why you canīt evoke using the ability is because you can only evoke something from your hand Wink
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FusionFire



Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 248

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So now that Horde of Notions has a very viable ability, lets use it:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation

// Lands
1 Graven Cairns
3 Vivid Marsh
1 Battlefield Forge
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Vivid Meadow
3 Vivid Grove
3 Sunken Ruins
1 Mystic Gate
3 Flooded Grove
4 Vivid Creek

// Creatures
2 Cloudthresher
4 Mulldrifter
3 Plumeveil
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Horde of Notions

// Spells
3 Condemn
3 Negate
2 Cruel Ultimatum
4 Esper Charm
2 Jund Charm
4 Cryptic Command
3 Wrath of God

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Condemn
SB: 2 Shriekmaw
SB: 1 Jace Beleren
SB: 1 Wispmare
SB: 1 Mind Shatter
SB: 4 Vexing Shusher
SB: 3 Ajani Vengeant
SB: 2 Tempest of Light

I have played this version a few times and Horde of Notions is amazing for EOT Cloudthreshers and Mulldrifters. As well as dodging the usual Shriekmaw and terror effects.
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Clariax
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is not correct. If the Mulldrifter were being played from teh library (due to Future Sight) or graveyard (due to Yawgmoth's Will), for examples, it could still be evoked. It cannot be evoked when played via Horde of Notions because Evoke involved paying an alternate cost.

When playing something via an alternate cost, you pay that alternate cost instead of the mana cost. Horde of Notions has you play it without paying the mana cost, however. Since you're already replacing paying the mana cost with paying nothing, you cannot replace it again with paying the evoke cost.

xiko wrote:
the simple answer of why you canīt evoke using the ability is because you can only evoke something from your hand Wink
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Farseer
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FusionFire wrote:
So now that Horde of Notions has a very viable ability, lets use it:

I have played this version a few times and Horde of Notions is amazing for EOT Cloudthreshers and Mulldrifters. As well as dodging the usual Shriekmaw and terror effects.


If you want critique of your deck, you should post your list in the T2 forum. This forum is just for Q&A on Magic Rulings.
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