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tuning turbofog (yes it works)



 
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zorglub



Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:42 pm    Post subject: tuning turbofog (yes it works) Reply with quote

Hi evrybody,
here is my list of turbofog i'm testing quite extensively.

The matchups so far :
WW aggro ++++
elves +++
Vengeant weenie ++
Cruel control ++
UB tokens +
RDW --
Faeries ---

Here is the list :
// Lands
10 [10E] Island (3)
4 [SHM] Mystic Gate
6 [10E] Plains (3)
4 [SHM] Reflecting Pool

// Creatures
3 [LRW] Jace Beleren

// Spells
4 [10E] Howling Mine
2 [ALA] Angelsong
4 [10E] Holy Day
4 [LRW] Pollen Lullaby
4 [LRW] Cryptic Command
2 [MOR] Negate
4 [SHM] Runed Halo
4 [MOR] Declaration of Naught
2 [10E] Wrath of God
3 [LRW] Broken Ambitions

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [10E] Pariah
SB: 4 [LRW] Burrenton Forge-Tender
SB: 4 [10E] Telepathy
SB: 3 [SHM] Swans of Bryn Argoll

Core : mines + jace + fogs + cryptic
Negate : to give the edge against low permission decks
Broken ambition : to mill some cards in case jace can't activate its last ability
Wrath : some creatures must be destroyed like resolved tidehollows, siege gangs, and a few others
Runed halo : stops the initial bleeding and some serious threats like : thougthseize, tidehollow, mistbind clique, ajani vengeant, some burn, cruel, etc.
Declaration of naught : to have an answer for sevral oblivion rings, opponent cryptics and so on. I tried counterbore but really 1 mana too costly.

SB : burrenton + pariah against monored, swans + pariah if they have access to infest
Telepathy is just there cause i found nothing really stopping Faries in UW in t2. I would need such a card :
Instant
CC : 1WW
Text : split second. Destroy all faeries in play.

i need some input to be able to win faeries. One of my big problem is that i don't have any fficient means to put some cards directly into grave and as they draw all their deck, they have too many counters and must counter for my deck :
thoughtseize, mistbind, broken ambitions. I need some help.
Thanks
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Eldariel
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would you ever play a deck that autoloses to the most popular deck in the format? Seriously, you can't build Turbo Fog to beat Faeries; they have too large strategic advantage before even considering the individual cards. They have infinite threats and they can just steal your turns for few turns, counter your Fogs and win.

Also, they card quality is superior, so the Mine-effects help them more than they help you. If the meta was composed only of red/white aggro decks, Turbofog would have some merit, but it's a metagame deck with MUs it can't beat regardless of the build and it just so happens that this metagame is dominated by one such MU. So wait for a better time. Play a deck better suited for the meta.
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zorglub



Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep, right now it auto loses to faerie, that's for sure. I just whish i had more cards to play with. ALA is just too weak and did not bring a real new meta.
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Eldariel
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Historically, one set hasn't done that in a long time. Lorwyn didn't break the Ala-block meta, TSP didn't break the Ravnica-block meta, Ravnica didn't break the Kamigawa-block meta (although came the closest with the duals; it actually had a relevant influence), Kamigawa didn't break the Mirrodin-block meta; Mirrodin may have come the close, but even that really needed Darksteel to put things into the "stupid shit"-mode. And as long as Onslaught was in the format, Mirrodin was pretty fine, since Onslaught had its own linear mechanics of insane strength along with potent hate so the format still saw Exalted Angels and Goblin Piledrivers clash with Affinity and Tooth around.

But back to the topic, you couldn't really build a Legacy Turbo Fog to beat Standard Faeries. The strategic advantage is just too strong; their gameplan simply trumps yours. The other advantages are relevant, but that's the lynchpoint - when both decks do what they want to do, they win. And their deck usually does what they want it to do. You'd need to alter your entire strategy to beat them, not just individual cards.

Even a hoser on the level of white Engineered Plague wouldn't help you out; you'd need something like split second E. Plague to really stand a chance with your present strategic config and even then, as your victory would rest solely on that one card, you'd still lose lots of games where you simply don't find that card, or where it gets Thoughtseized or Vendilion Cliqued or even just Crypticced, or where you get beat down by a Mistbind regardless. The problem aren't the cards, it's your strategy. That's why I'm suggesting simply not playing Turbofog right now.
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twodioz



Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you thought about crovax or ghostly prison?
They might help your overall game plan.
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LordLink



Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because this is obviously an extended deck...

Manabarbs + Runed Halo can improve the control matchup, up to you though. Red also gives access to Spiteful Visions. Black gives Underworld Dreams too if you want to run a Vivid base.
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zorglub



Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well,
i'll have to wait for the next extension then, maybe some strong faerie hate will pop up then or new archetypes.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Faerie Hate won't help. Maybe with the exception of Engineered Plague being reprinted but even that is a spell that needs to go through.

The fact is that their faeries need to die instant speed. Fog effects does nothing unless you are winning because of that tempo swing. Sorcery speed removal is also inefficient against faeries.
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah Wizards thought about how unfun Fog is to play against. So they killed it with a few cards. Pithing Needle-stops Jace from winging the game for you. Bitterblossom-A growing number of threats every turn and only costs one card. With Loxodon Warhamer Blitterblossom is a complete nightmare for fog decks. You must find a fog EVERY TURN or auto lose. Everlasting Torment-You can not prevent damage with fog effects.

Sure there are more cards that hose fog game plans but all of the above are played by a lot of decks.

I don't think that fog is a good choice. I do think that you could play a control list with a fog effect or two in the main but, to lose the effects on the game from 16-20 cards out of your deck due to one card like Everlasting Torment just sucks.
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JeZeus



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 225

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fog is a silly deck, however if you were to make it better for this format. . . Do what a lot of other decks have done, add more colors. If the two you are using aren't hacking it add one that has more hate for Faeries. I would suggest black then you have, thoughtseize, underworld dreams, infest, hell you could use your own bitterblossom if you really wanted. Anyhow I'll fall back on my initial statement that it is a silly deck, and just not play it at all. I would just forget about it entirely Razz
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kj_4247



Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this deck is now, has always been, and (gods willing) will always be bad.

For the love of magic stop wasteing everyones time by testing this garbage
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In 2020...

Some guy will wipe the dust off his UB Faeries deck and play it for the 10 000th time saying "it's my favourite deck".

Meanwhile, somewhere else, another guy wipes the dust off his Psychatog deck laughing maniacly saying "I play it because it drives people insane mwhawhawhahwa"

...

the decks aren't the problem. It is the people!
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zorglub



Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JeZeus wrote:
Fog is a silly deck, however if you were to make it better for this format. . . Do what a lot of other decks have done, add more colors. If the two you are using aren't hacking it add one that has more hate for Faeries. I would suggest black then you have, thoughtseize, underworld dreams, infest, hell you could use your own bitterblossom if you really wanted. Anyhow I'll fall back on my initial statement that it is a silly deck, and just not play it at all. I would just forget about it entirely Razz


well, not a lot of supportive players here... I'm the one who will break TurboFog.
I tried adding black. Thoughtseize is not very usefull, it would be if extirpate was still legal.
I think green or red would be more useful in fact.
Red : ajani vengeant, pyroclasm
Green : hurricane, cloudthresher (only for evoke cost)

i would love to have exhaustion reprinted...
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floreskiller



Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Declaration of Naught scenario:
Fog: Island go
Faeries: Secluded Glen go
Fog: Declaration of Naught naming Bitterblossom
Faeries: Bitterblossom go

....awkward.

-4 Declaration of Naught
+4 Remove Soul
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