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My take on T2 Elfball


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KeySam



Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 649

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:23 pm    Post subject: My take on T2 Elfball Reply with quote

First things first heres the decklist:

// Lands
14 [TSP] Forest (1)
4 [LRW] Mosswort Bridge

// Creatures
4 [LRW] Imperious Perfect
3 [ALA] Skullmulcher
4 [MOR] Heritage Druid
4 [ALA] Elvish Visionary
1 [LRW] Elvish Eulogist
4 [10E] Llanowar Elves
4 [EVE] Nettle Sentinel
4 [LRW] Elvish Harbinger
4 [EVE] Regal Force

// Spells
1 [10E] Recollect
1 [10E] Hurricane
4 [LRW] Gilt-Leaf Ambush
4 [LRW] Elvish Promenade

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [10E] Hurricane
SB: 2 [LRW] Garruk Wildspeaker
SB: 4 [MOR] Mutavault
SB: 4 [EVG] Wren's Run Vanquisher
SB: 4 [MOR] Bramblewood Paragon

Ok first the deck idea, then i go over some card choices and other stuff.

The basic idea of the deck, for anyone who doesnt know, is to combo hertiage druid and elvish promenade with the draw cards(regal force and skullmulcher), to draw your deck. After you did that you just need to win the game, thats where i play hurricane since it isnt hard to get enough mana for that. The one elvish eulogist ist there to get more life then your opponent in case you got less then him(dont forget to get some extra elves into the graveyard with skullmulcher).

Card Choices:

Hurricane as the kill condition, i tried a lot of things with this deck and all other kill conditions have problems, like having to wait a turn, needing nongreen mana... Nongreen mana can be solved with manamorphose and i first liked it alot(your only playing a 56 card deck), but its never a great card to have and when you play it you want to splash more colors to utilize it further which will go to more unkeepable hands. Furthermore hurricane isnt bad against faeries, demigod, bitterblossom/spektral proscession tokens, sower of temptation or mulldrifter or just to finish and opponent of(in case you dont go of) if you draw it.

The recollect is just there to ensure that if you go of, you kill your opponent, you dont want to not be able to go of because someone countered your one kill condition or coutnered the lone elvish eulogist, but it also helps if they thoughtseized the kill peace. Once again if you draw it and dont need it, you can return some stuff back to your hand like a Promenade or gilt leaf ambush, or any killed creature for that matter.

I talked about elvish eulogist already.

Mosswort Bridge, this card is suprisingly good in this deck, i was realy impressed with it. It may slow you down a little bit but it gives you great consitency, it isnt that hard to get the 10 power on the table and once its the card for just 2 mana at instant speed. Its card advantage/selection, combat trick and lets you run more land then in my other versions of elfball decks.

Imperious Perfect was a pretty late addition, espacally in this version i was never conviced its good enough, since i want to focus on the combo, but once i added the mosswort bridge, i kind of wanted a pump effect, thats where perfect comes in. But besides helping out with mosswort bridge it also lets you go beatdown.

3x Skullmulcher/ 4x Regal Force those are the cards to actually draw your deck, of course regal force seems a little bit expensive but with promenade and hertiage it isnt that hard to pull it off. The Mulcher is pretty similar in this deck, although it makes it more difficult if you dont have that many elfs and even if you got some its harder because you need to put in some work to get promenade going again.

Gilt leaf ambush, another pretty late edition which i learned to love again(i loved it back in block already), the most important part about this card is its instant speed nature, it helps you to not overextend and still be able to explode on your turn, it also clashes which helps finding the combo, its also not that bad if you go beatdown and last but not least it helps to get mosswort bridge online if you got Perfect.

Cards that arent there:

Devoted Druid, i realy realy like that card, but i found out it almost never did as i wanted, the time where it was realy insane was with hertiage druid as 1 shot nettle sentinel without the need to play a green spell, but if you got hertiage going your most of the time fine anyway, and its beatdown pressure is 0.

The black splash for thoughtseize or tarfiend. I splashed alot in this deck and it never helped me. IF you want seize you almost always can replace it with glutural response, since your trying to combo them anyway and i seemed to get tarfiend always if i was on 3 life and my opponent had a demigod. Overall it didnt seem worth it, but i am still not 100% sure about the sideboard so maybe i should splash it again, what do you think?

Distant Melody/Roar of The crowd/Manamorpose I choose those cards all together because their kind of a package. The idea is to play some more painlands and maybe 1 or 2 filter lands to get the mana halfway done and then rely on manamorphose and harbinger to do the rest. This sounds great in theory but often busts up your plans. e.G. You have a hand that contains only forests for lands, no harbinger and everything you need but a card drawer + Manamorphose, in this spot you want to use manamorphose to draw distant melody, but you need it to fix your mana and you sit with a manamorphose in hand waiting. This is just one scenario i could go over other stuff but i think you get the point.

Commune with Nature, i was never realy happy with that card, but it did a fine job usualy, i guess i could run it in place of gilt leaf ambush but i prefer the ambush, although i am not 100% positive on this decision what do you think?

Ranger of Eos is horrendously slow and has also the color problem.

I think i did go over all the card choices, if i missed something let me know.

I play a transformational sideboard, i am not sure about this, but it seems to work pretty well. I use it for the 2 problem matchups control and faeries(merfolk also i guess but i never played against it). The idea is to let your opponent side all their combo hate stuff in and then go a different direction and just beat face. Therefore i side out all skullmulcher, hertiage druids, promenades and recollect, hurricane and eulogist and side in everything but hurricane against control, against faeries i switch garruk for the 2 hurricanes. It worked out okay so far, but it isnt that mutch tested.

Matchups:

The deck has a pretty decent matchup against everything but control and faeries and both of the decks are also beatable game one.
The hardest to play in game 1 is probably control because you have to decide if you go for the combo or try to beat him down(you can do the first good, but if he got counter + wrath your screwed and you can do the second not great in g1).
Against faeries its actually more easy game 1 because they usualy dont run infest, so you just play out whatever you can as quickly you can and try to overwhelm them.
Against anything else you are the combo deck, just be aware the more removal/burn they got the more you need to think when to play heritage druid. Sometimes its good to slowroll him. The less removal they got the more are you favor, but dont forget that you dont need to realy combo of, making 20 guys does the trick often too, against decks that dont have sweepers.

Let me know what you think and how i can improve the deck.

KeySam
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hawt



Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this the deck i play in the master last week-end and i finish 10 5-2-0
i tried a list very semilar to your but dint like the match up again fearies rdw b/w token . whyt this version fearies is prety mutch like a bye same for controle anyway i just like more the world list . i dont like your sideboard i dont know look like wrath kill kill the deck but you dont got nothing to respond to wrath are envoid it .


// Lands
4 [10E] Brushland
4 [LRW] Gilt-Leaf Palace
4 [LRW] Windbrisk Heights
3 [SHM] Wooded Bastion
4 [10E] Llanowar Wastes

// Creatures
2 [10E] Birds of Paradise
1 [LRW] Cloudthresher
4 [SHM] Devoted Druid
3 [ALA] Elvish Visionary
4 [MOR] Heritage Druid
4 [EVG] Llanowar Elves
4 [EVE] Nettle Sentinel
4 [ALA] Ranger of Eos
4 [EVE] Regal Force

// Spells
4 [10E] Commune with Nature
4 [LRW] Primal Command
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [LRW] Cloudthresher
SB: 1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 3 [LRW] Burrenton Forge-Tender
SB: 4 [MOR] Chameleon Colossus
SB: 3 [SHM] Guttural Response
SB: 1 [ALA] Mycoloth
SB: 1 [10E] Treetop Village
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Malice



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 91

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually ran t2 elfball at my FNM last friday and ended up taking 2nd. I lost in the finals to kithkin, but i had really really bad draws both games. The decks i beat however were faeries, UWB Rev, GWU Bant aggro/control and a kithkin deck. Here was my list:

4x heritage druid
4x nettle sentinel
4x llanowar elves
4x Bramblewood paragon
4x elvish visionary
4x imperious perfect
2x regal force

3x distant melody
4x mana morphoses
3x roar of the crowd
4x elvish promenade

4x flooded grove
4x fire-lit thicket
2x yavimaya coast
2x karplusan forest
8x forest

SB
4x wrens run vanquisher
4x Boggart Ram-gang
4x troll astetic
3x chameleon colossus

I like distant melody over skullmulchers and additional regal forces because it allows you to go off that turn, as opposed to having to completely tap out. Roar of the crowd seems like a good win card because it allows you to beat early and just sneak some damage through ftw. I never had mana problems due to the manamorphoses.
I opted to go with a transformational sideboard because I tested trying to run the deck with negates and thoughtseizes and it just never comboed out right, you would be left with dead cards in your hand when your trying to go off. The sideboard was very valid, especially against the fae and rev, ram-gang was especially good when you get it out turn 3 with a bramblewood in play. I wouldn't play the deck very much anymore though because it just scoops to WWr decks running mogg fanatics, i was just lucky enough to dodge the two that were running around that friday.
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GoneBananas
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in g/b elfball run tar friend its a gg half the time
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ik
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tar Fiend may sound funny but yes its gg... i had god hand against this gb elfball deck a few weeks ago... 4 land with demigods and more land in hand... he plays tarfiend as a 14/14... it was pretty bad for me
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CalebD
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really liked the idea of mono green, so I threw the deck together to test it out.

The win condition worked out really well for me, and I never really had trouble with the draw engine either.

There is the matter of being stuck with 7/9 power on the table and a regal force trapped under a bridge. There have been a couple times I have wondered if the white splash for heath might be better, but in those cases you would have to wait a turn for stuff to lose summoning sickness anyway.

Perfect is good at handling the bridge problem, but you don't really want to run into multiples while trying to combo out. I think 3 is the right number, but I haven't played the deck as much as you have.

Paragon and Mutavault both look a little lackluster in your sb. I understand how Mutavault is good against sweepers and the like, I just think there are better options to side out. There are perhaps more than 15 spells you probably don't want md if you're going beatdown. How are you sbing, exactly? Are you dropping lands to bring the mutavaults in, or spells?

I'd think you would want to take out something close to this(depending on the matchup):

3 [ADA] Skullmulcher
1 [EVE] Regal Force
1 [LRW] Elvish Eulogist
4 [LRW] Elvish Harbinger
1 [10E] Recollect
1 [10E] Hurricane
4 [LRW] Elvish Promenade

Which means mutavault could be a spell, unless you're sbing out spells for them, and paragon's could probably be better served as Colossus's or extra Garruk Wildspeakers.
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KeySam



Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 649

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Hawt Your deck doesnt realy look like elfball, espacally not a combo version and since i want to go combo... Although i have to say that the faeries matchup isnt that good but rdw and tokens are good.


@Mallice I wrote about the color problem in my first post and why i decided against it. And your decks runs only 12 lands that can produce colored mana on their own that will go into a lot of unkeepable hands.

@Tird_Ape and Ik, in my first post i talked about the black splash for tarfiend, the problem is that it realy seems great, until you run into a deck that has a better board position after you tarfineded it. I mutch rather have skullmulcher and try to go of to kill my opponent then tarfiend him and am not sure if i win. But look in my first post.

@CalebD I sideboard heritage druid instead of Harbinger(because i like harbinger fixing draws is always good Razz) and let the regal force in all the time, because you only sideboard 14 cards. You can read it in my first post when i go the sideboarding. Like i also said i am not sure about the sideboard yet but i found it hard to sideboard right against control when you want to combo, instead of going beatdown. The mutavaults are there because playing 18 lands is a bit risky for a beatdown deck in my books and mutavault is both attacker and land. I like paragon because it gives me a second agrresive two drop and helps to get out of infest range.
I know that you miss mosswort bridge sometimes for just a few power that realy sucks, but i dont know what you can do against it, other then pumping your guys. And now we are talking about the perfect. Yea i know that drawing two of those isnt that hot, but it gives you the oppurturnity to combo without having hertiage druid and Promenade (i won games where i gilt leaf ambushed and had 3 other creatures in play, untapped played perfect and mosswort bridge a regal force into play which lead to the cards i need to kill him. ), but if you got an alternativ to make the mosswort math more easy i would be grateful to get it, or for what are you replacing the 4.th perfect?

Thanks for all answers

edit: I just saw another way for sideboarding in the mtgsalvation thread, where he transforms into a kind of midrange deck with cards like wilt leaf liedge (he sided treetops where i have mutavaults) and other stuff, what do you think about that idea, i think it could be worth trying. It would also give me the opporturnity to play Wrens runs packmaster which i think is one of the most underrated cards right now. Anyway tell me what you think.

KeySam
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Cambria



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

// Lands
12 [ARE] Forest (2)
4 [IA] Brushland
4 [IA] Karplusan Forest

// Creatures
3 [EVE] Twinblade Slasher
3 [ALA] Ranger of Eos
4 [ALA] Elvish Visionary
4 [EVE] Nettle Sentinel
4 [FNM] Llanowar Elves
3 [EVE] Regal Force
4 [MOR] Heritage Druid

// Spells
3 [LRW] Elvish Promenade
4 [MOR] Roar of the Crowd
4 [CHK] Commune with Nature
4 [SHM] Manamorphose

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [ALA] Mycoloth
SB: 4 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 [SHM] Gleeful Sabotage
SB: 4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 [ALA] Tar Fiend


That is what I have been working on. I have tried Blaze, Hurricane, and Sarkhan Vol as win cons, but I like Roar of the Crowds more.

I wanna try Distant Melody, but my only way to cast it would be with Manamorphose, and I really don't want to dilute my base anymore.
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Acid_Christ



Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 799

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4x Llanowar Elves
4x Heritage Druid
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Devoted Druid
4x Elvish Visionary
2x Ranger of Eos
3x Regal Force

4x Manamorphose
4x Elvish Promenade
4x Distant Melody
2x Roar of the Crowd

3x Flooded Grove
4x Yavimaya Coast
2x Karplusan Forest
11x Forest


sb---------------

3x Vexing Shusher
4x Naturalize
4x Guttural Response
4x Luminescent Rain


Its an old list, but still works good.
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CalebD
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hadn't thought of Paragon against Infest. I still don't like it. Your 1-toughness dudes all die anyway, and you only have 8 2-toughness dudes md. Why not just run more creatures that survive infest, like colossus, liege (protects the same as paragon), garruk, ram-gang, or vanquisher? Rather than run more cards that are hit by Infest, just run more beef.

I think Mutavaults sb are going to be all around better than treetops if you're running Imperious Perfect and other comes-into-play-tapped lands. Speaking of which, I dropped one forest and a Perfect from your list for two md Mutavaults. The mutas can up your power count by two using a single mana, as opposed to the perfect's 3, and I think they work better with Perfects than the Perfects do with each other. Also, the extra land could hypothetically be useful mid-combo.

Packmaster might be a good sb option, especially if you're keeping the harbingers in. Older, crappy elf aggro decks ran them. I think Harbinger to Colossus is better though, I would use those instead.
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CalebD
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hadn't thought of looping primals. The win is tedious, but the primal seems like it would be more useful md than the hurricane kill. Nice work!
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unwadetrout



Joined: 27 Mar 2009
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think how it works is that you have 1 Skullmulcher and keep Promenading eating exactly as many tokens to the rest of your library. Play your library. Then primal command and choose to shuffle gyard into library. Then play more token spells. Then skullmulcher the rest of your library and repeat. Do this and bounce all ur opponents lands. DOes that make sense?
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alsorhombus



Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:45 pm    Post subject: lol Reply with quote

obviously noobmellow = unwadetrout ---- plz ban. so annoying, and not humorous.
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