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Whats the problem?


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> General Magic-League Issues
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:45 pm    Post subject: Whats the problem? Reply with quote

So recently I achieved my target of getting back above 1800 I have only played one draft since doing so in which I lost in finals and played so poorly after the first round that I am reluctant to play again until I can identify what has caused my level of play to drop and rectify the situation.

There are multiple factors that potentially could have caused the drop in performance I will list all the factors that I see and would be interested in peoples opinions on solutions to them.

First off I have aquired quite a bad cold, which could explain me uncharatistically rushing decisions and not properly thinking through matters, lots of snot a very bad throat and very little sleep.

Secondly my play noticably dropped after the first round was over when even if I lost my next match there was no danger of me dropping below 1800, I have not really set myself any new target but to maintain my current rating for atleast a couple of months or so whilst regulary playing.

I beleive my play noticeably improved as I got closer to my target rating and I was always alert attentive and focused on reaching my goal. So should I set another goal this soon? Which brings me to the problem with goal setting, all the goals that are worth setting for myself to reach now feel unobtainable to me 1850, 1900 etc, I only play 4-3-2-2 so the amount of matches I would have to be winning compared to losing against such competition makes it seem to me a far stretch to even achieve a rating of 1850 (please keep all the play 8-4 comments out of this thread). I know there is evidence in the form of actual people who have achieved these things that debunk my belief but I simply can not visualize myself as one of these people.

Now looking back on my play since acheving my goal I found I was alot more relaxed and confidant but it bordered onto arrogance and not thinking through plays properly only to be saved time and time again by the shuffler. I know confidence and being relaxed are suppose to be good things but it does not seem to have benefited my play. I know I can become arrogant and it is something I am always wary of as a person as frankly arrogance is an ugly beast. The games did not feel like they mattered so much anymore perhasp you could say I was demotivated I did not feel the same euphoria at a win or anger at a loss. When I did make a mistake I was slower to notice and did not get angry with myself as usual, I simply shrugged it off. This may sound very healthy but I do not feel this is the case with me and it is more a sign of demotivation and not caring about my game. What should I do to motivate myself?

Is it just the bad cold or do I need to set myself some new achieveable goals to reach in order to challenge myself enough to allow me to play somewhere around my optimum level, what do people think I am open to suggestions?
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Orlandu



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 196

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:57 pm    Post subject: Er Reply with quote

1800 isn't really that difficult to get in 4-3-2-2, but if you want to hold onto your rating, and I know you don't want to hear this, you need to get into 8-4s. You don't want a random loss Qing you, and there's no way you can get to 1900 gaining one or two points on most of your matches.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Er Reply with quote

Orlandu wrote:
1800 isn't really that difficult to get in 4-3-2-2, but if you want to hold onto your rating, and I know you don't want to hear this, you need to get into 8-4s. You don't want a random loss Qing you, and there's no way you can get to 1900 gaining one or two points on most of your matches.


Where did I imply it was hard to achieve the rating it was simply my goal, what was the purpose of this statement?, I hope you see how your next statement about 1900 not being achieveable in 4-3-2-2 contradicts what you just said. I am a student so 8-4 is not financially viable when I am in a financial situation that allows me to be able to lose that much money on magic I happly will but currently financial common sense dicatates I can not take the risk.
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Jacois



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1201

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, now that you've achieved your goal perhaps you should use some lame excuse to make a thread and brag about it?

Oh wait, you just did.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah a thread where I brag about how my play has got worse and ask for advice on how to remedy it. I am a psychology student and intend to do one of either clinical or normal psychology as degree level, so discussions like this are of intrest to me.

Perhasp other people have had similar experiences and are suffering from or solved the problem, I would be intrested in hearing from them. This thread has nothing to do with bragging (well maybe a little on some level) its simply about getting advice its sad you see it that way, I acheived my goal why do you feel the need to detract from that. But the thread is not about that, the thread is about the negative effects of acheiving my goal and asking for advice on how much people feel illness effects play and how to aquire a new mindset and start looking at goals which were previously and still feel unachieveable to me and how I go about changing that view or if i even need to do so.

Please stick to the issues of the thread jokes aside.
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[R]Nchamay



Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to totally noob it, but whats 4-3-2-2 and 8-4?
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Jacois



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1201

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, like all people in year one of college, you have this fucking annoying "holier than thou" attitude that I just can't stand. You insult under a guise of self fulfillment that is so tranparent to everybody but you.

Of course, I digress, but it's my right to digress, don't tell me how I can or should respond, in fact, maybe you should do a thesis on why people think you're an ass.

Anyways, back on topic, you lost in the finals of a mini (or MODO draft, whatever) and apparently you think that means you suck at magic now. Everybody loses, and from your story you don't lose very often. Just shrug off your 1 loss (that apparently required a complete restructuring of your magic life) and play in another draft.

I go through ups and downs like a champ in magic, and it's part of the game. Losing can be just as rewarding as winning so long as you learn from it. Magic is a constantly evolving game and to think you would always be good would be arrogant.
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

set yourself a new goal. if you dont feel your playing well its because you've reached your old goal and now have nothing to play for.
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svenihilator



Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I think the problem is that you were never good at drafting in the first place. I've been reading through each of your drafts and usually about 50% of the picks are quite wrong. Many things such as getting down to the last five cards and just picking random junk and rationalizing it with statements like "I wasn't going to play any of this anyways" yet there are still things other decks can use. You don't pick something you won't use that late, you pick something someone else might. There are many other examples of being in the wrong colours or taking suboptimal cards - my favorite instance being taking a third oblivion ring over a branching bolt - but I really don't want to sit here all night going through all your drafts.

Usually by the end of your draft, your deck is decent, but nowhere near the best it could be given the opportunities you had. Basically, all I'm saying is, either you're drafting with people who also don't know how to draft or you're playing against people who don't know how to play. It's really the only way I see your limited skills geing over something even as simple as 1800.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4-3-2-2 and 8-4 are prize payout

What insults, I use logic not insults to make my points maybe you should try doing the same. The people who throw around are impressed by random insults like ass are of no interest to me (sorry Im sure you'll get over it.)

It was not just I lost but I played terribly, I attacked with a 2/2 nactal into a 3/3 when i had a topan asetic on board also for some reason not playing my creatures precombat to pump asetic. Totally unlike me, then I in finals when i knew my opponent had 2 sigil blessing in his deck and even knew he had it in hand, attacked in with bull ceredon and knight of the skyward eye my opponent proceeded to block a 2/2 against the bull, and a 1/3 and and two 2/2 2/2s against the knight, I pumped the knight he played blessing, I choose to use my naya battlemage to give the bull +2 +0.

These are terrible, terrible mistakes and there were more and there is more to it than just I played badly, I am trying to learn something discussion is a great way of learning, insulting people me in particular will get you no where, you should know by now lol. I am trying to stamp this problem out before it gets out of hand.

I am beginning to think I do need a new goal as gypsy suggests but the problem is in finding a goal that motivates me as most of them feel unachievable to me. Have you gypsy or anyone ever found youself in a situation magic or otherwise where you had reached a goal you had been struggling with for a long time and have had trouble setting yourself a realistic goal that would motivate you, same to everyone else for that matter and what did you do and did it work.

Im off to bed hopefully there will be some more good discussion when i wake up.
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Dr_Nico



Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like how you draft most of the time. I even get annoyed of you forcing an archetype, because on a higher level that just fails.

But I have an honest and good suggestion for you. If you feel like 8-4's are out of reach, just try to win as many 4-3-2-2 that you can and when you have a decent stock of packs, just blow them on 8-4's. Obviously you do this once you feel you have lots of packs to waste. It's how one of my friends got really good at drafting, lots of practice with the best and the not so good will pay off a lot. I think this new goal, getting better for the slowpokes out there, will help you a lot in this new stage of your game.

Have fun!
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

svenihilator wrote:
Well, I think the problem is that you were never good at drafting in the first place. I've been reading through each of your drafts and usually about 50% of the picks are quite wrong. Many things such as getting down to the last five cards and just picking random junk and rationalizing it with statements like "I wasn't going to play any of this anyways" yet there are still things other decks can use. You don't pick something you won't use that late, you pick something someone else might. There are many other examples of being in the wrong colours or taking suboptimal cards - my favorite instance being taking a third oblivion ring over a branching bolt - but I really don't want to sit here all night going through all your drafts.

Usually by the end of your draft, your deck is decent, but nowhere near the best it could be given the opportunities you had. Basically, all I'm saying is, either you're drafting with people who also don't know how to draft or you're playing against people who don't know how to play. It's really the only way I see your limited skills geing over something even as simple as 1800.


Maybe you should put your own skills up for judgement and see the sort of feedback you get I am sure you will be surprised. Find me one example in any of my drafts in last five picks where I have ever said I was never going to play this anyways, you made that up or any pick for that matter.

I assume as you find it so simple to get over 1800, that you must be a 2000 rated player or so perhasp your in the modo hall of fame. I am sure your not calling something you have never achieved yourself simple and your magic-league limited rating is not in fact lower than what it started out as. However if this is the case may I boldly suggest maybe its you who is incorrect on somepicks and not me and you need to start being as critical as yourself as you are others.

I am not afraid of criticism particuallry when its consturctive infact I throughly appreciate it and with out it I would not have this rating that seems to upset people so much. But its you guys who are making a big deal out of this not me, it was not the focus of my thread but people have sadly turned it into that.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr_Nico wrote:
I don't like how you draft most of the time. I even get annoyed of you forcing an archetype, because on a higher level that just fails.

But I have an honest and good suggestion for you. If you feel like 8-4's are out of reach, just try to win as many 4-3-2-2 that you can and when you have a decent stock of packs, just blow them on 8-4's. Obviously you do this once you feel you have lots of packs to waste. It's how one of my friends got really good at drafting, lots of practice with the best and the not so good will pay off a lot. I think this new goal, getting better for the slowpokes out there, will help you a lot in this new stage of your game.

Have fun!


Okay every time I finish replying someone has made a new post, Im going to bed after this one I promise. Sounds like a very good idea I did maintain a 1780-1790 rating through out kamiwaga playing 8-4 and lost like 10 matches or more to break 1800 through out kami block tell me thats not psychological playing was costing me £300 $600 a month. Sadly I doubt i will win enough to have enough packs to take the plunge but I guess that gives me a new goal:)
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sc4rs



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 859

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You won't get better playing 4-3-2-2s and you can't play 8-4s. Alternative? Get better players that you don't have to pay money to play with.

Find a playgroup that doesn't draft for product but are all good drafters interested in improving their game. Write down your picks and talk about it immediately afterwards. Don't talk to a giant forum full of 99% players who don't give a shit, get a focused playgroup together and actively discuss the hardest picks and the biggest decisions you make in a draft. Don't just play 3-4 games with a draft deck, play it over and over and over again to actually see how it stacks up to other decks that your playgroup has drafted to see if it's actually good or not. Look at the bad decks and figure out why they're bad, and if there was a turning point in the draft that they should have noticed.

These are the sorts of things you can only really do if you have a good playgroup of dedicated players. I had one when I was in highschool and had time for it, and nearly all of us reached the low 1800s in limited or constructed for a while, but when you're in college, it's just harder. Life gets in the way.

This is really the only way to get better after a certain point. This is why pros have teams and playtest groups in constructed, and playtesting works for limited as well. You can't just draft a deck, go 0-2 or 2-0, 0-2, and say "welp bad luck I drafted the best I could" or else you'll miss the lessons that deck would've taught you that would make you a better drafter overall.
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Ownj00



Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've been back and forth from 1900 to 1650 to 1900 to 1650, etc in both limited and cons. it just happens. mtgo seems really streaky.


i.e.: i just dropped below 1800 limited tonight with 2x battlegrace angel, sphinx sovereign, 3x executioner's capsule, 3x sanctum gargoyle, 2x puppeteer conjuror/2x astroglobe, i got rolled by turn 2 deathraiders, turn 3 sedrexis specter, turn 4 dragon fodder/bone splitters both games. sometimes you just get rolled.
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