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Jund Mana Ramp (Looking for SB advice)


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JSUOversoul



Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:48 pm    Post subject: Jund Mana Ramp (Looking for SB advice) Reply with quote

Ok, so when CS/TSP/PC/FUT were all legal, I loved playing R/G Mana Ramp, so now that the archetype is viable again, I was eager to test the new 3-color version. The deck has been performing quite well (it's built to battle my meta here in Alabama, which consists mostly of Kithkin, Faeries, and 5CC). I was going to run it tonight at FNM, but a situation came up & I was unable to attend. Anyway, that gives me another week to prepare it and hopefully get some advice on how to sideboard for the different matchups, mainly the 3 that I mentioned. Here's the list:

4 - Savage Lands
4 - Fire-Lit Thicket
5 - Forest
3 - Reflecting Pool
4 - Treetop Village
1 - Mountain
1 - Swamp
1 - Graven Cairns
1 - Twilight Mire

4 - Kitchen Finks
4 - Civic Wayfinder
4 - Chameleon Colossus
3 - Broodmate Dragon
2 - Cloudthresher
1 - Hellkite Overlord

4 - Rampant Growth
4 - Jund Charm
4 - Firespout
4 - Gift of the Gargantuan
2 - Primal Command

Sideboard:

4 - Guttural Response
2 - Shriekmaw
3 - Naturalize
4 - Magma Spray
2 - Cloudthresher

So what I'm mainly looking for is 1. How to sideboard against Faeries, Kithkin, and 5-Color. I know what goes in, I just need a little help for what should come out, and 2. SB and MD card choices. I realize this list is very close to the one Mike Flores played at States, but I figure if I'm going to test a brand-new deck, I might as well get a blueprint from a pretty good player and then change it as I see fit. Thanks.
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Delicious



Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 883

PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to talk about your SB. i think you should run infest. Main reason: Forge Tender
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stone_d
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

main:
-1 overlord
-4 jund charm
+2 shriekmaw
+2 primal command
+1 cloudthresher (it's not only good against faeries)

sb:
-1 cloudhtresher (it's main now)
-2 shriekmaw (main now)
-4 gutteral response
-3 naturalize
+2 wickerbough elder
+4 infest
+4 rain of tears / thoughtseize
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DESTRUCTOR



Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like farhaven elf more than civic wayfinder becuse it puts the land into play wich is betther for a mana ramp deck, and i think 4 jund charm an 4 firespout is a bit too much maybe you could cut 1 of each and add violent ultimatum or mind shatter or garruk/sarkan vol
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Bigshow



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 1374
Location: Igloo town

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your list is seriously tooo slow than what it can be

// Lands
4 [10E] Llanowar Wastes
3 [SHM] Fire-Lit Thicket
5 [MR] Forest (4)
4 [FUT] Graven Cairns
2 [MR] Mountain (3)
2 [MR] Swamp (3)
4 [10E] Treetop Village

// Creatures
3 [LRW] Garruk Wildspeaker
3 [LRW] Liliana Vess
1 [ALA] Broodmate Dragon
4 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
1 [ALA] Hellkite Overlord
1 [LRW] Cloudthresher
2 [MOR] Chameleon Colossus

// Spells
1 [MR] Loxodon Warhammer
4 [LRW] Fertile Ground
3 [ALA] Violent Ultimatum
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
3 [10E] Rampant Growth
4 [7E] Pyroclasm
1 [SHM] Firespout
1 [LRW] Eyeblight's Ending

I don't have a sb either but this list is just so good its unreal. Either of the planeswalkers are good and its just unreal. Although im sweet talking it I'd -1 liliana for + GarruK

I've been testing it out a while ago and turn 3 garruk turn 4 Broodmate or turn 4 collossus.
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Acid_Christ



Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 799

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flores had a Jund Ramp deck on Wizards that might be worth looking into.
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JSUOversoul



Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the Flores deck is what this one is based off of. I think I mentioned that in my post.

And whoever said I should cut all 4 copies of Guttural Response out of the board, justify the reason for doing so when I specified that my meta is dominated by FAERIES AND 5-COLOR CONTROL. Why would I NOT run 4 copies of it? Siding in Infest has been done, but I will not remove the Guts.

Ok, so how would I sideboard against the matchups I said? What should I take out? I know what goes in, now what would go out?
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ynnus



Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there needs to be at least 1 or 2 more broodmate dragon.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

-4 Firespout + 4 G.Resp

-2 Jund Charm +2 Cloudthresher

What did you take out of the sb to add Infest?
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Bigshow



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 1374
Location: Igloo town

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vedrfolner wrote:
-4 Firespout + 4 G.Resp

-2 Jund Charm +2 Cloudthresher

What did you take out of the sb to add Infest?


I'd keep jund charm. Its actually pretty good all together
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ynnus



Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my take on jund mana ramp.
I like to keep the cloudthreshers and broodmate dragons in the main instead of siding them in after.
I also like my garruk and makeshift mannequins.

the sideboard is more offensive against 5c with bitterblossoms, fulminator mages, 1 more cloudthresher, and primal command all coming in.

for faeries I bring in another cloudthresher, bitterblossom, and primal command.

shriekmaw, saplings, and primal command come in against kithkin.

saplings and primal command come in for rdw.

fulminator mages ianytime theres lots of non-basics

// Lands
4 [ALA] Savage Lands
4 [SHM] Reflecting Pool
1 [10E] Mountain (4)
1 [10E] Swamp (4)
1 [EVE] Twilight Mire
1 [SHM] Fire-Lit Thicket
1 [10E] Llanowar Wastes
1 [10E] Karplusan Forest
3 [10E] Treetop Village
6 [10E] Forest (4)

// Creatures
3 [LRW] Garruk Wildspeaker
4 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
4 [MOR] Chameleon Colossus
3 [LRW] Cloudthresher
3 [ALA] Broodmate Dragon
4 [SHM] Farhaven Elf

// Spells
2 [ALA] Violent Ultimatum
4 [LRW] Fertile Ground
3 [LRW] Makeshift Mannequin
3 [SHM] Firespout
4 [ALA] Jund Charm

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LRW] Cloudthresher
SB: 2 [LRW] Shriekmaw
SB: 3 [EVE] Sapling of Colfenor
SB: 4 [MOR] Bitterblossom
SB: 2 [LRW] Primal Command
SB: 3 [SHM] Fulminator Mage
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Gabraanth



Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are your guy's thoughts on Vigor?
That+firespout=win.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gabraanth wrote:
What are your guy's thoughts on Vigor?
That+firespout=win.


If you have Vigor plus several other creatures in play, it is unlikely you need Firespout to win. Plus, a creature which costs 3GGG should really win the game alone - so Vigor's damage prevention ability is strictly overkill. 6/6 trample for 6 is ok in Limited (and there his ability is good as well).
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CalebD
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stone_d wrote:
main:
-1 overlord
-4 jund charm
+2 shriekmaw
+2 primal command
+1 cloudthresher (it's not only good against faeries)

sb:
-1 cloudhtresher (it's main now)
-2 shriekmaw (main now)
-4 gutteral response
-3 naturalize
+2 wickerbough elder
+4 infest
+4 rain of tears / thoughtseize



He's right in that:

1-Wickerbough Elder is the shit. SB 2-4 of those bad boys, I've never regretted having 4 available.

2-Thresher main is good stuff, probably better than overlord. Oona is also pretty badass, I've been winning with her a lot lately.

3-You don't need 4 gutteral responses. That's 4 reactive cards to hit 4 cryptic commands... hardly amazing by anyone's measurements. Cut that crap out for more threshers/fast beats, Cryptic gets a lot worse when they have no outs to a losing board position, so the Gutteral's are slots better used for crap to mess up their position, like thresher. Rain of tears isn't a bad option against Cruel Control.

4-More Primals are good.

He's wrong in that:

1-You need Infest sb. You don't, really, but it might work out well.

2-You need Shriekmaw in the main. Keep that sb, it's really good when it's good, but I hate having dead draws. If you do MD the Primal Commands you can get away with them, but even then I'd just run one.

3-You should take the Jund Charms out of the MD. I like the card a lot, and instant speed matters against the Fae.
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CalebD
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pmoore311 wrote:

I think you are missing the value of gutteral response. This card should be an auto 4 of in the sideboard of this deck. And could make the argument for any deck running gree/red for that matter. This spell is reactive yes...but forces your spells onto the board against the 2 best decks in the format 5CC & Faeries. Lets name a few spells outside of Cryptic that can be devastating. Bant Charm, Negate, Flashfreeze, Esper Charm, Agony Warp, Broken Ambitions.

The real strategy against control decks with a RGB ramp deck would be siding in mind shatter and using gutteral reponse to force it through to wreck their hand.


Your list of cards is a bit off. Against Fae Agony Warp is far from devastating for this deck. Meanwhile, not all lists run 4x Broken Ambitions. And a very rare few run the charms, which brings us to 5CC.

I've stalled out enough games against 5CC to know that I always want that last card to be a threat. An instant-speed threat (thresher) is better, but any threat is good.

Struggling for card parity against decks with draw engines is not going to pay off as well as having a better strategy. Losing x amount of games to drawing a few gutterals instead of the critical threat (threats draw out counters on their own, btw) will be the difference between winning that last match when you're 5-2. I could see sbing a couple, but 4 is only fit for incredibly heavy 5CC environments. And I'd only bring in two against the Fae.

pmoore311 wrote:
Also Jund Charms are an auto 4 of MD. Are you crazy this card is amazing againt Lark, and Faeries, kithkin and elves not to mention can add +2/+2 to one of your creature to create combat trickery and speed up the clock.


You misread me. I said to keep them in, my point was that the other guy was wrong when he said to take them out.

This should make things simpler for you:

CalebD wrote:

He's wrong in that:
3-You should take the Jund Charms out of the MD.
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