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Manapot Legal Issues


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thedarkness



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 581

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to disagree with the validity of that argument.

I did some light reading, and according to common sense, my limited knowledge of the United States legal system, and people more knowledgeable than I am, I've reached two conclusions.

One: Wizards knew about MTGE long before they "recently became aware" of it, and only -began- to have it shut down because they were essentially obligated to. It seems like Hasbro would have been fighting an uphill legal battle at best, but due to the fact that the issue was brought up at all, and PROBABLY due to the lack of funding for a huge lawsuit, the owner of MTGE decided to accept their terms.

Two: If you don't allow people to create, save, and/or publicize custom cards and/or sets, they will have no legal grounds on which to shut you down. It sounds from their letter as though they had no qualms with the program's use of real sets as created by Wizards of the Coast, but when people started making lookalikes, they stepped up to fight. Here's a passage from the letter that Wollo received from Wizards of the Coast:

We have recently become aware that you are making available on your website, www.mtglair.de, a tool called MtG Editor that allow users to create their own MAGIC: THE GATHERING® trading cards. The site includes many sample trading cards, as well as entire sets that have been made using the MtG Editor. These trading cards copy the overall look and feel of genuine MAGIC: THE GATHERING® trading cards and also include MAGIC: THE GATHERING® Mana and Tap symbols.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding of the american legal system is limited but i do know this, the big corperation always wins, you can get away with murder (literally) if your a millionaire, even more so if your president.
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thedarkness



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 581

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then your knowledge of the American legal system is absolutely baseless and fundamentally flawed.

The reason why the major corporations *occasionally* "win" those sorts of lawsuits is because major corporations can afford to have them, while Joe Schmoe might not have enough to afford a lawyer, and thusly might just accept his fate.

Seriously, this guy is actually concerned. Spouting nonsense with absolutely no basis in reality (such as "rich people can always get away with murder, especially the president, who isn't actually rich and probably gets paid less annually than my aunt...") should get you banned from the forums. That's just rude.
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Aion



Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's dealing with creating your own magic cards though. There have already been projects like the one your doing right now (apprentice, mws, ect) and no legalities have come up in any of those so I don't see a problem.
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wisdomhappy



Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that a millionaire, or FOR SURE a billionaire could get away with murder for sure (I bet there exists at least one assassin in the whole world). I advise looking back at the gold treasure of The Central America to see how far big business will go to try to screw every penny out of you. to summarize, these MIT dudes spent the peak of their lives to invent all this crazy tech that didn't exist to get 150 million dollars worth of gold off the bottom of the ocean 8000 feet down. Then when they got back there was 39 insurance companies that had SUED them, froze the gold for 10 years of legal battles just to get like 6-8% of the money. That story may not apply here at all, the point is just that you need to remember how far people will go for each of your pennies.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Mr Bush did not just kill loads of people for money (oil) and OJ Simpson was found guilty of murder. Oh wait neither of thoose things happened, ban me because I have a different view to you, you don't like what Im saying, why don't you take it one step further and kill all infidels like me unless i think what you do, know what that would make you?
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metroman722



Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On what basis though? i guess maybe the points system would allow people to play real magic for absolutely nothing so without that you would have just a better mws with more functionality and i don't see why it would be an issue...but then again i really have no clue.
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metroman722



Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so hes not allowed to have anything about magic on a server? im not questioning your answer im using this more like a learning experience.

What is the issue with the server, if he could just put the pictures in the program and give it to me. Or even the "buying" of cards?

EDIT:

I think it might be because he's not allowed to distribute the cards and likeness because he doesn't own them but why is the server any different then just like MWS uses mana symbols names and card texts?
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Craze



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 5676
Location: Indiana, U

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

metroman722 wrote:
so hes not allowed to have anything about magic on a server? im not questioning your answer im using this more like a learning experience.

What is the issue with the server, if he could just put the pictures in the program and give it to me. Or even the "buying" of cards?

EDIT:

I think it might be because he's not allowed to distribute the cards and likeness because he doesn't own them but why is the server any different then just like MWS uses mana symbols names and card texts?


well for starters, mws doesn't use mana symbols or tap symbols. "R" is not the same as a red mana symbol. And the word "Tap" isn't owned by anyone. MWS/Apprentice use words/letters that one can associate as the mana/tap symbols. Thus it isn't breaking the law.
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Aion



Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what he has to do is make a program based on text instead of the mana symbols already in and have patches for us to download right?
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may be useful to e-mail the legal team in advance and ask them what you can and can not do, as i do not believe they are entirely opposed to programs like yours, just if they infringe on certain things, of course be vague, do not use your actual e-mail address and do not name the program etc but it could settle some of your issues.

They may well be like no no you can not do that at all, in which case its upto you what you do, or they maybe like as long as you do not break these boundaries what your doing is actually helping promote our game.
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Craze



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 5676
Location: Indiana, U

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is the program going to be a mtgo like system in the first place? Winning cards in a card pool sounds like alot of additional work that would just cause legal issues, I really don't understand why the program just doesn't offer every card like MWS/Apprentice.

Another thing is by making this program your kinda sorta making a league in on itself, one offering points to in fact trade in for cards. Thats a threat to ML, which makes me wonder why this and your other topic aren't locked...
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MattCatt



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craze wrote:
I really don't understand why the program just doesn't offer every card like MWS/Apprentice.

I like this feature because it adds realism to it. Now you have to earn the cards to use them, instead of being able to copy an already successful deck from the start.
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Ggerg



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MattCatt wrote:
Craze wrote:
I really don't understand why the program just doesn't offer every card like MWS/Apprentice.

I like this feature because it adds realism to it. Now you have to earn the cards to use them, instead of being able to copy an already successful deck from the start.


....ur one of those guys who thinks "netdecks" are evil, aren't you?
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the earning cards idea, it gives people something to aim for, more like a computed game like world of war craft or something, its not going to appela to people looking for serious testing but it makes it more like an ineractive version of the old magic the gathering pc game accept you can actually play vs other players which is cool.
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