by EMA on 2012-06-20 10:49 CET
by struikje on 2012-06-20 11:18 CET
by JohnnyBravo on 2012-06-20 11:53 CET
I don't play much legacy, is land tax a playable card? I suppose so since it was banned...
by Halldir on 2012-06-20 13:10 CET
no delver banned :S
by Wichtelman on 2012-06-20 13:24 CET
turn 1-2 emrakul or griselbrand is a little bit more annoying than turn 1 delver or land tax no?
by JohnnyBravo on 2012-06-20 13:55 CET
I honestly expected Snapcaster ban..
by ykpon on 2012-06-20 14:16 CET
No idea if anyone still plays Commander at m-l, but there are some changes there too: no more Griselbrand and Sundering Titan.
by Stucco on 2012-06-20 14:38 CET
Yeah, no Griselbrand in EDH makes complete sense.
I could've seen Wizards go either way with Snapcaster. It's all good.
by pseudodespot on 2012-06-20 17:10 CET
I totally predicted no changes at all, and just to screw me they unban Land Tax which no one needs at all. :(
by mtgsoldier on 2012-06-20 17:19 CET
Wizards of the fail
by thedarkness on 2012-06-20 19:47 CET
..that's why they unbanned it. It's no longer gamebreaking. Was Land Tax ever gamebreaking? o.o
by meagel on 2012-06-20 20:04 CET
Land tax + scroll rack was beastly at one point. It was also good in Armageddon decks.
by DonDiggy on 2012-06-20 21:40 CET
Land Tax: Dutch Staxx maybe.
For the bannings: completely makes sense to me.
In Standard Delver is not as dominating as Jace and Sfm were in the last rotation. And even if it was they wouldnt ever ban Delver or Snapcaster. Delver by itself is solid, things just get rough with ponder. Snapcaster is solid too, but gets crazy with Leak, Ponder and Snag. But Leak+Ponder will be out of business when RTR comes up. Banning Snapcaster and unbanning it with RTR Release sounds like shit. Thats why my only thought was that Snag+Ponder mightve been banned. Snag turned out to be wrong after the spoiling of M13 Unsummon. But Ponder still being legal was a questionable one.
Modern is healthy right now, lets skip this.
And Legacy: You didnt seriously think there was even a 1% Chance of Grisel/Emrakul Ban dit you? They never ban the cards to be exploited, they always catch up the exploiters -> SnT/SA. But this only happens if people did their best to adapt the dominating deck. Did this happen? I dont see a single Pithing Needle in todays Legacy Decks, though its accessable to all decks. Sometimes this #griselban and #ban delver Shit just makes me think you guys just cant build your set of 75 correctly and therefor do the crybaby to hopefully make wotc ban your unconfortable matchup.
by Wichtelman on 2012-06-20 22:35 CET
who said they have to ban griselbrand or emrakul?
there are enough tools atm to combat each strategy...
by Burton911 on 2012-06-21 00:03 CET
"Modern is healthy right now, lets skip this."
Healthy isnt the word to use when you shove every pill within armsreach down the patients throat.
Or more precisly a format where they ban most of the combodecks isn't exactly what i would call healthy.
by Yavimaya73 on 2012-06-21 00:56 CET
I guess Land Tax was before most of you started playing. Land Tax was an insane card for a long time. I forget the name of it, but the enchantment where you discard a land and it deals damage was rediculous with Land Tax and with sac outlets like Zuran's Orb you will always be able to search. And it is one mana drop and with that green card that allows you to return 3 lands to your hand...you could easily drop 12 damage within a couple of turns.
by DonDiggy on 2012-06-21 07:38 CET
Let me precise it even more: They banned all the combo decks wich could consistently kill the enemy in the earliest turns. Which doesnt mean there is no combo in modern. There are loads or playable combodecks: Seismic Swans, Burning Loam, Melira, Twin, Storm, Living End...and well, you seriously dont want dredge or full powered affinity in modern. Affinity wold eat up all the aggro percentage while dredge would rape everyting named control or aggrocontrol. yay combometa, sounds great.
by ShottyHorroh on 2012-06-21 10:27 CET
I'm a huge fan of needle. ALWAYS.
by Burton911 on 2012-06-21 17:02 CET
you obvioulsy never played extended when it was actually an awesome format dondiggy.
But thats ok ...
by mtgsoldier on 2012-06-21 19:16 CET
Actually modern is the funnier format by far and the bans as dondiggy said, had to be made in order to not let some insane combos kill in turn 2 (cause you know, modern does not have the tools legacy have to prevent it wihtout bans) and keep the best agroo decks not so good like afinnity or banning a 3/3 for 1 without drawback in zoo.
in the end, the majority of people prefer a format where every deck is only good, instead of a format where every deck is insane good. i do at least.
by EMA on 2012-06-21 20:38 CET
For the bannings: completely makes sense to me.
In Standard Delver is not as dominating as Jace and Sfm were in the last rotation. And even if it was they wouldnt ever ban Delver or Snapcaster. Delver by itself is solid, things just get rough with ponder. " quote
This doesn't make sense... "Stoneforge by itself is solid" one could say then.
It's precisely because of the interactions the cards have that they do broken stuff and break a format, they rarely do it by themselves (jace maybe).
As u said delver on its own is fair, with ponder it's not fair, as is snapcaster with no cheap instants to abuse. (just look at block constructed-no delvers/snappys there).
As for the expectation of them banning vapor snag i don't know what to say... like, really? You even said they ban the enabler, not the abused card.
Come on guys, unsummon has never been constructed playable. Unless you cast it 15 times and beat them with a 3 flying power meanwhile. then there might be a problem.
but as long as people are not upset losing to that (it doesn't "look" unfair like cheating a batterskull into play), and are still having fun losing to delver with their brews, they aren't banning anything.
Time to learn to play the mirror I guess ^^
by DonDiggy on 2012-06-21 21:15 CET
Your comparison with Sfm is a little twisted.
In your example, Batterskull was the card to be abused, not Stoneforge Mystic. Sfm made it unfair, just like Ponder makes Delver unfair and so on. Therefor it was the right Decision to ban SFM. And no, Sfm is not solid, even when it looks up for a shitty living Weapon or a Darksteel Axe. Still awesome Card Advantage.
Now again for the enabler thing. Delver is not the enabler, its ponder. Just like Survival was the enabler in Legacy, not Vengevine. But when talking about Snapcaster Mage you cant only do the "who exploits what". See, Bannings are an emergency button in general. You just dont ban every card which has a good run in a couple of weeks. And you usually dont ban a card which will loose most of its power with the upcoming rotation. People would ofc be offended by banning snappy for now and unbanning it with rtr. Especially from the point of selling/trading cards.
by EMA on 2012-06-21 21:32 CET
2 points are completely false:
1-SfM wasn't good before swords and batterskull, just look at previous standard, indeed it saw little to no play and was nowhere near broken.
2-Wotc doesnt give a shit about the secondary market, they did indeed ban a 100$ mythic rare because they thought it had to be done, and the majority of players was not pissed off, because after that people actually started attending events again.
Thirdly, the comparison between sfm and snappy is actually obvious. they belong exactly to the same category of cards that affect one or more general type of cards (just like merchant scroll, crop rotation and so on).
This is the kind of card that limits design space as it will only get better as new sets are released and will degenerate into something broken almost inevitably at some point.
Are you really suggesting that it's not clear if vapor snag is abusing snapcaster mage or vice versa? come on!
by DonDiggy on 2012-06-22 07:10 CET
1) Sfm was unfair be4 SoM. I think you forgot the SparkCollar Combo. Besides that, even be4 Sparkcollar it was unfair, it only was undercover.
2) Ofc Wizards cares about the secondary market. If they wouldnt give a shit about card values there wouldve been so many staple-reprints for modern until now. Have you seen any? And well, I was damn sure you'll slam down the Jace on this one. Once again: Banning Jace was the emergency button because of the overwhelming dominance of cawblade and the decreasing number of attendants in standard. In that case, the ban was required, and ppl understood. But thats not the case today, so why should they play rise/fall with Snapcaster?
3) Time will tell if Snapcaster Mage will remain overpowered in Standard. For what we've seen in M13 until now, No seems to be the correct answer. It was the combination of possible Cardquality, additional Counterspells and Speed Advantage that made Snapcaster so broken. I assume Wotc learned their lesson and we should give Snappy another try in the upcoming rotation, maybe his best target in future will be Brimstone Volley, who knows ;-)
by EMA on 2012-06-22 14:45 CET
1.Spark+collar was a 2 card combo and nowhere near as broken as free batterskulls on turn 3.
Collar on its own was just okay, with the pinger it was very good, and even then, the guy was a 0/1 for 3 mana, it's not like you couldn't deal with it.
And no, I don't recall cunning sparkmage dominating standard because of its brokeness, maybe because it was indeed a crappy tier 2 deck and the best deck was still jund.
2.They said they WILL reprint modern staples to give access to the cards to new players.
Wether it will be in from the vault pre con decks or actual sets we don't know, so your point is totally invalid.
3. The fact that they won't print new cheap, good instants, is just a confirmation of the fact that snapcaster is just too good: it actively affects the future sets design.