by SteveMan on 2012-06-09 22:05 CET

STAX

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by Burton911 on 2012-06-09 22:55 CET

only 3 Trinispheres?

and how does Belcher win against Stax?
Two goddraws?
//edit: on second thought, the deck does not really have anything against belcher except for leyline

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by SteveMan on 2012-06-09 23:23 CET

Leyline / Null Rod / Stony Silence all stop Belcher.

Stax needs 2-3 lock pieces (depending on the combination) to completely shut out Belcher (except Trinisphere which does it in one blow).

3 Trinisphere is correct, 4 is too much. If you look at any winning / placing Stax list (both online and IRL) it's always 3.

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by Canabiest on 2012-06-09 23:26 CET

I like having a teamdeck and it placing well. Even if CChildress had to walk over his other teammembers to the top. Feels like a step in the right direction.

Three Trinispheres is poetic

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by moscowdemon on 2012-06-09 23:40 CET

To explain the finals:
Game 1 - I land Chalice on 0 and get Elspeth in play and get him to 2 life, he goes off on last turn with belcher for lethal. I never found another chalice to hit on 1 or Trinisphere.
Game 2 - I mull to 6, keep Tomb, Plains, Elspeth, Leyline, Leyline, Mox. It's a good lock on the belcher win, so I keep and run out the leylines. I get to Elspeth and present a clock. He wins around turn 6 or 7, iirc, by going off with EtW. I never saw Idyllic Tutor (for Moat), Moat, Trinisphere, or Chalice.
That deck is a nutdraw.dec, so saying it nutdrew twice is just bad, but saying I drew poorly would be correct, imo.
Happens! Stay tuned for Steveman's Epic Primer!

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by Selkie on 2012-06-10 00:08 CET

Isn't BUg control just team america?

While not quite a traditional list, it is most of the parts...

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by moscowdemon on 2012-06-10 02:07 CET

Team America is pretty different from BUg Control.

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by darkwizard42 on 2012-06-10 07:42 CET

That's not team America :/

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by Spyx on 2012-06-10 10:52 CET

If belcher wins the die roll against stax it can just win twice with turn 1 goblin tokens (which is fairly normal for the deck). If stax gets a turn it's usually pretty bad.

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by CChildress on 2012-06-10 12:16 CET

I won both games between turns 5-8.
Which is terrible for that deck.
Game 1 being that he played a moat and i had EtW.
Game 2 being that he played a leyline and i had belcher.

If stax was going to beat me it would have been both of those games. "terrible draw" is having a way to deal with belcher's first turn and second turn wins both games.. LOL

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by straca3 on 2012-06-10 15:02 CET

Why no 15 Island sideboard? Confused..

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by Ashmatan on 2012-06-10 16:19 CET

Stax should never lose to creature or most definitely combo decks. i swear i love sphere of resistance. My stax plays with it and no one else can deal with paying 1 more mana for spells. It throws their gameplan off too much.

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by SteveMan on 2012-06-10 17:22 CET

While I think Sphere of Resistance is a great card, it deprives you of more opportunity to play your more powerful cards (all 4cc, Elspeth, Moat, Humility) than it does depriving your opponent of playing their 1-2 cc cards. There's no way it can be played in a Dutch Stax shell which is by far the superior build of any Stax variant.

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by SteveMan on 2012-06-10 17:30 CET

asdf

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by SteveMan on 2012-06-10 17:55 CET

(kept getting errors in editing two previous posts, sorry for the spam)

Also, please don't say something like Stax should never lose to creatures, or most definitely combo decks when you played Stax in this trial and lost to Maverick

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by struikje on 2012-06-10 22:51 CET

straca3: burning wish on island isn't just what it used to be in legacy i guess

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by moscowdemon on 2012-06-11 14:59 CET

The thing with stax is that you need to basically create an effective stall, and lock it out with other stuff before you die. This should be obvious to people, but the main problem is that when you face something like a combo deck that has multiple wincons, you have to basically play with what you are given and lock out each threat as you go.
In my match against CChildress, yes, I had moat game 1 to lock down an EtW combo, and also had game 2 leyline turn 0 to lock down belcher combo, but he has other ways to win which he can get to. Not drawing a trinisphere that whole match is basically what leads to the loss the most.
Also, CChildress has the out to Burning Wish for Reverant Silence and break the lock if they are enchantments. Pretty much the main way to stop belcher for good is to land a trinisphere, as their only chance is storming up mana, then shattering spree, then STILL comboing off.
The fact I had a single lock card that happened to hit the main combo for that game is great and all, but it is VERY obvious that Stax cannot present much of a clock. This gives ample time to just find another piece and finish. For example: when I have moat, Burning Wish for Goblin War Strike, or even a belcher win.
That being said, they would be considered bad draws, CChildress, as I wasn't able to find the most key piece to the lock in the match up in either game. Denying that would seem pretty bad since I did draw plenty of cards between the games. I never had doubt in my mind that you would win since I wasn't finding trinispheres.

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by CChildress on 2012-06-12 02:46 CET

Any deck that goes first turn trinisphere beats belcher. So yes, agreed no first turn trinisphere = bad draw. You should really never expect to beat belcher with stax without that draw. Like if I were playing against belcher with stax, i would expect to lose every time i said "go" without a trinisphere on the board.

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