April 2009 Extended (1.x) Deck lists: Naya Aggro, GB Rock, Mono White Control, Boros Deck Wins

by ik on 2009-01-26 20:18 EDT

1st

by ik on 2009-01-26 20:19 EDT

Gratz again btw, Silver... you truely are my hero

by dv8r on 2009-01-26 20:19 EDT

guess that makes TugaChampion a stupid inconsiderate douchebag?

by ik on 2009-01-26 20:23 EDT

Obv

by standarizeMA on 2009-01-26 20:27 EDT

ahahahahha twice in a row =]

by SilverMcHowl on 2009-01-26 20:28 EDT

Hang on now. It's entirely possible that I've topped 4, 2nd, and 1st in standard trials, and then 2nd and 1st in extended trials completely by luck. I mean, that's the only possible explanation, right?

by ik on 2009-01-26 20:30 EDT

Tuga should post something now... i would find that amusing :D

by Magno- on 2009-01-26 20:30 EDT

Congrats to Silver. I tested your deck and I like it.

At the MWC-list:
Idyllic Tutor? Really... Only 1 Runed Halo? Austere Command over Akroma's Vengeance? 4x Crovax and only 3x Eternal Dragon?

I don't really like the list...... at all :\. You played mono red 5x or something? :\

by Zits on 2009-01-26 20:35 EDT

Death Cloud with not Daeth Cloud = GB Rock

Gratz @ Ennomd

by CyrusKiller on 2009-01-26 20:40 EDT

one word lucksack just imagine how i feel when i lost with elfball against this garbage T2 deck...

by tcook589 on 2009-01-26 20:43 EDT

I still don't get it.

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-26 20:44 EDT

dv8r: on the other hand I think this just confirms m-l sucks. Everyone irl keeps telling me m-l sucks but although I knew it I didn't want to believe and actually had hope it could actually be good enough for testing. But this was the last drop. Now I really have lost faith in m-l.

I can understand that naya pile beating mono white. Actually it looks like a pretty good match up since they need to it 3 mana and ring after Realm Razer. Or Condemn if he attacks but against white that's just stupid.

The boros would be harder because it has some pro red creatures and has reach with burn. It's also easy to kill that Razor with burn. However shit happens and naya pile could win. (BTW this boros is a pile too but at least it plays extended cards).

But HOW THE FUCK can naya pile beat deathcloud? Either the deathcloud player drawed like crap/mulliganned several times in 2 games or he's just the most brainless creature ever. Actually I think it takes both.

Either the players have gone completly retarded or they're letting silver win just to make fun of me and the other few who actually think this makes no fucking sense.

Does anyone seriously think anyone would take this to a PT, GP or even PTQ? I've seen random decks in ptqs but those at least countain a deck using a larger part of the card pool.

Also, does anyone think this is good for all us players? I for one like testing against decks I might face not some random pile from T2.

And dv8r I though you were a bit better. But seems like you're like all these morons who think it's cool for crappy decks from weaker formats winning. It just puts m-l's name in the mud.

But w/e. It's funny to see no-lifers think someone is an hero because he plays a t2 deck in extended...

by coolcreep on 2009-01-26 20:50 EDT

@ Cyrus: You felt like a noob. How fitting.

@ Tuga: Boy, you must get a lot of free cards winning every ML master because everyone else is a noob. Amirite?

by el_cuervito on 2009-01-26 20:52 EDT

batutinha!!!!!1
boros deck wins
<&Batutinha> Naya FTW
<&Batutinha> NAYA > t2
<&Batutinha> Naya > T4
<&Batutinha> Naya > legacy
<&Batutinha> Naya > Vintage

lol
xD
Boros > all
me > u!
noname > we!

by ZW on 2009-01-26 20:54 EDT

wow...magic-league has reached new levels of futility...i am astonished by what has become of magic-league...how that deck beats elves/faeries amazes me...even zoo seems like a very good matchup...all i can say is wow...to anyone who lost to this guy and this deck, shame on you, you shall burn in eternal magic the gathering hell. I can see how he won the semis and finals though. Realm razor seems pretty good vs cloud, and the 3rd and 4th decks are almost as horrible as his.

by ik on 2009-01-26 21:03 EDT

by CyrusKiller on 2009-01-26 17:40 PST

one word lucksack just imagine how i feel when i lost with elfball against this garbage T2 deck...

Dumbass... If you think hes just a lucksack im pretty sure youre terrible at this game...

by ZW on 2009-01-26 21:08 EDT

Nono, he's definentally a lucksack. If you think his deck is good, I'm sure you are terrible at this game. His winning is a combination of being lucky, playing bad players/bad decks and just using a deck that isn't really metagamed against. Sometimes random, bad decks will do this. I remember about a year ago someone top8d a legacy master with a kithkin deck using cloudgoat rangers and such, winning because every deck was playing counterbalances and stifles and the deck was very good versus those (although I don't think the deck ended up winning).

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-26 21:28 EDT

yes RW. That was Ronnan and he has to top8 every master he plays.

ik: Cyrus is actually a good player, way better than you'll ever be.

by rentintin3 on 2009-01-26 21:30 EDT

I will say that soemone told me ronnin t8ed with kithkin in legacy so that explains that.lol But really the naya deck might not be that bad vs some decks. I mean 3 cost cards over and over again vs fae I think some of the cards will get through right? plus a well timed razer doesn't seem bad.

by Kytep on 2009-01-26 21:36 EDT

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-26 19:44 CST

But HOW THE FUCK can naya pile beat deathcloud?

----------------------------------------

Tuga: Just a thought: What if, instead of using this question to vent frustration that SilverMcHowl and his Naya deck are defying your expectations (and then go on to explain away such defiance of your expectations with mulligans or "brainless" players), you actually took your own question seriously?

Put another way: Rather than continuing to come up with scenarios that would make your pre-existing assumptions correct, what if you started to question those assumptions instead? Especially in light of the fact that McHowl is having such repeated success?

I suspect your Magic game would greatly improve, even if you are already a master today.

Just some thoughts. Take them or leave them.

Kytep

by Kytep on 2009-01-26 21:37 EDT

SilverMcHowl - Congrats again! As a fellow rogue deck player (albeit nowhere nearly as successful as you obv), I really appreciate what you have done here, including not changing your mana base for 1.x for the extra "gravy" of having your deck fully T2 legal and yet dominating M-L's 1.x environment!

Fantastic job! I don't think I've ever seen a rogue deck have anywhere near this much success on M-L! You've more than earned your kudos!!

Kytep

by tcook589 on 2009-01-26 21:40 EDT

He may have stolen (hopefully only) 1 game with Raven's Crime -> Wilt-Leaf Liege, but I repeat: I still don't get it.

by dv8r on 2009-01-26 21:42 EDT

TC: I'm going to ignore your inflamatory comments and instead give you some friendly advice

if you want proper testing, get together a playtest group, and play the faeries mirror 50 times.

don't hate on someone just because they won with a suboptimal deck. Silver was probably just playing for fun with a deck he enjoys playing. There's NOTHING wrong with that.

Yes, he probably got lucky, yes his deck could be better, but why do you care so much?

Realise that mtg is at heart about luck and fun, or you'll never be a good mtg player.

by ZW on 2009-01-26 21:49 EDT

Nice double post! I have to say that anyone who thinks SilverMcHowl's deck is any good is totally wrong. It is never good to play worse cards over better cards for the sake of trying to look cool. He's obviously getting lucky and he's lucky to be playing in a metagame where many decks have 8-16 cards used just to beat the popular decks which are not good vs. this deck (engineered explosives, stifle, shackles, spell snare,darkblast, etc.). Besides his 3 naya charms, he cannot beat elves, so I would consider it a 90-10 matchup in elves favor, as eventually elves will mulligan to 4 or get off to a slow enough start and are having a bad enough game that they are vulnerable to and cannot recover from a naya charm.

by CyrusKiller on 2009-01-26 21:56 EDT

I just saw how i survive two turn cuz he fails to attack with the right creature both game he won...

And no problem about that he lucksacked and it s part of the game but i think it doesn t reflect the player performance at all... (mediocre player)

by asamodious on 2009-01-26 22:00 EDT

how did the elf vs naya matchup go anyways?

how did u win silver? You seem to have only 6 relevant cards (naya charm and magma spray)

by winner_pablo on 2009-01-26 22:00 EDT

SilverMcHowl plz deck serious !!!!

by Sprouts on 2009-01-26 22:01 EDT

congrats silver, repeatedly winning extended trials with a t2 deck must be difficult, you must be a good player.

by SilverMcHowl on 2009-01-26 22:03 EDT

I'll post my logs in the forum. The elf deck, did not mulligan btw. (I think, he may have once.)

The only "luck" was running out of time against the white control deck. Then again, that deck managed to get almost 40 life in g3, still managed to get it down to lower life.

by Batutinha on 2009-01-26 22:09 EDT

El_cuervito: why noname > we?
lol

I > all

I and my builds > all =p

by Benny-Lava on 2009-01-26 22:45 EDT

Mc Howl,
Plz stop doing this.
Tuga is not sleeping anymore and will commit suicide if you continue.

by Dr_Nico on 2009-01-26 23:00 EDT

LOL at the dudes who ever thought ml was a place for serious testing.

by Kurse on 2009-01-26 23:25 EDT

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA HE ****ING WON!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA...

holy sh*t i can't stop laughing...

ahh...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHH

by Shatta on 2009-01-26 23:27 EDT

I'm now on boycott from M-L until shit like this stops happening

by yukizz on 2009-01-26 23:35 EDT

When did Magic turn into some communist type thing? I'm pretty sure the purpose of Magic is competition and creativity. If people really hate Silver for winning with a "suboptimal" deck, then you really should just quit playing this game. Luck or not, results speak louder than words and even if skill has nothing to do with it, he's obviously doing something right XD.

by cram320 on 2009-01-26 23:56 EDT

well he could have at least used lightning helix...

by Kurse on 2009-01-27 00:00 EDT

i honestly wonder what this deck is capable of doing if you actually "extendinize" it?? fetchlands, lightning helix, baloth or hiearch in place of liege...

hmm...

by CB on 2009-01-27 00:06 EDT

... I agree that the deck is not good at all in ext but I respect him for winning. Everyone is just bitching yet he keeps posting good results. Stop bitching, play, and beat him to show that he/his deck are not as good as some people think. Doing that will prove that your point of view is correct, otherwise it is just battling opinions and it is really hard to sway someones opinion without data/results.

by slade_ on 2009-01-27 00:16 EDT

I don't see how this is such a huge mystery. He played a turn 2 5/4 and turned it sideways until he won extended. DING.

by trueeevil on 2009-01-27 00:37 EDT

I agree that some cards may be good, but others like elvish piper are completely ridiculous. now people will have to adjust their decks for one deck that will see no play in a real life meta, messing up testing for those players.

by alsorhombus on 2009-01-27 01:22 EDT

He's obviously getting lucky and he's lucky to be playing in a metagame where many decks have 8-16 cards used just to beat the popular decks which are not good vs. this deck (engineered explosives, stifle, shackles, spell snare,darkblast, etc.).

The second part, about him being lucky to be playing in a meta where many decks have 8-16 irrelevant cards, that is not luck. That is maximizing your good luck. Everyone gears up to beat elves, and LSV brings swans to the next GP. Then UR desire. Just because his match ups went well doesnt mean he is doing anything wrong. In fact he is making all of you look really dumb, arguing how he could have beaten you two turns earlier etc... Well if he could have beaten you two turns earlier you must have really gotten smashed.... by a fucking type two deck. Whos the pathetic one there?

by Kytep on 2009-01-27 01:57 EDT

For those who are interested, here are SilverMcHowl's matchups to win this 1.x tournament with his T2 deck (that player's M-L rating going into the McHowl match in parens):

Rd - Player - Deck - Rating - Results

1 - Morpheus2222 - Mono W 8 Post (1649) 2-0
2 - Blackpen - Goblins (1555) 2-0
3 - Xarls - All-in Red (1844) 2-1
4 - CyrusKiller - Elves (1720) 2-1
5 - Kizito - Mono W Control (1648) 2-1
6 - Ennomd - GB Rock (1746) 2-0

To recap: McHowl beat 3 1700+ players (including one 1800+ player) with only 3 game losses in 6 rounds (15 games). He faced top-tier decks all day (with the possible exception of Round 1). He faced extreme aggro (Goblins, Elves, All-in Red), mid-range (Rock), and Control (Mono-W). And beat them all.

I'm glad we have some players around here who are way too good to just come in and dominate tournament after tournament like this. You see, they are SO good, we can all just take their word for it - they're awesome, and everyone/thing else sucks. Now THAT is good!!

Anyone else want to look into his other wins?

Kytep

by ik on 2009-01-27 01:58 EDT

Even the biggest lucksack isn't THAT lucky... and @ Tuga... if you are so damn good and know everything, then why the fuck haven't you beat him in any of these trials yet?...

by Chaosweaver on 2009-01-27 02:12 EDT

someone finally broke the M-L random meta. Accept this. Stop crying over online magic cards, its already a shame that people play this (I included) and people getting emotional about this game, are fucking losers.

Let the guy have his fucking win.

by Sihk on 2009-01-27 02:16 EDT

Sounds like all the people who play only teir 1 decks are crying about losing to a rogue deck. Yeah, that happens a lot. Especially with people who take Magic way too serious.

This game...it isn't oxygen. You won't die without it. But hey, if you can't do anything else well, like function in society, then far be it from me to take away your last ego boost.

Just remember, that while you are sitting at your cluttered desk play-testing faeries for the millionth time in your messy room with the rank smell of feces and sweat radiating from skin that hasn't seen a shower for a month, there's always someone like Silver who will be constantly innovating and improving both the meta and the game of Magic here at ML. That's why Magic-League is and will always be the very best place to play Magic. Innovation.

by corbox on 2009-01-27 02:40 EDT

GG kizito !
This is only his 2nd tournament here and this second result makes him deserves some respect !

And to Magno :

by Magno- on 2009-01-27 01:30 GMT

Congrats to Silver. I tested your deck and I like it.

At the MWC-list:
Idyllic Tutor? Really... Only 1 Runed Halo? Austere Command over Akroma's Vengeance? 4x Crovax and only 3x Eternal Dragon?

I don't really like the list...... at all :\. You played mono red 5x or something? :\

Idyllic tutor is not only for Runed if you learned to read while you were about to netdeck : Aura of Silence, Story Circle, Sacred Mesa, 3x Oblivion Ring. Are these cards creatures ? Or maybe Artifacts aren't they ? Learn to read before criticizing other's deck dude ...

by Shooter on 2009-01-27 04:27 EDT

Goblins doesn't exist,both monoW lists were garbage and all-in red is far from top tier. So he beat 2 real decks.ok.
Vs cloud the only hope is that the opponent plays sloppy. I mean, if u go g1 t1 crime u and get hit by a liege, u can't do that anymore w/o fast removal in hand. Then the other way is getting realm razer, but a timely putrefy solves that. Anyway I can see it happening.
But winning vs ELVES? C'MON...

Silver: Ok, u proved ur point. Now make some improvements,at least with the manabase. This is getting shameful for ml =[

And for everyone asking how the naya deck beats faeries: how can fae WIN w/o venser + lab? k tks

by Magno- on 2009-01-27 05:08 EDT

Uhm, you shouldn't link the tutor with the halo because they are right behind each other. Any mono white list should play atleast 2 or 3 halo's (Main + side)

I just don't like the tutor at all. Turn 3 to get a turn 4 enchantment out? Well, not for me...

by cabof on 2009-01-27 05:23 EDT

MTG: serious business
:)

by TheBends on 2009-01-27 05:30 EDT

Please lets talk like civalized people. I think the problem here is luck and SilverMcHowl is being lucky and stubborn because he insists on playing a T2 lists in extended were there are alot of optimal cards better for the deck he is running, irl he would never win a ptq with that list and yes ML i thought that ml was a nice playtesting place but i think i must move todo MTGO again because there, at least you pay and so nobody plays random shit (Only the 3/4 1400 players) So SilverMcHowl i give you congrats on lucking out. And to the players that lost there are only 3 explanations. 1- You suck at magic. 2- You mulliganed hard. 3- Your Deck sucks.

Bye

by RiQuSP on 2009-01-27 05:33 EDT

I lol'd.

:B

congratz McHowl!

by Eldariel on 2009-01-27 06:27 EDT

The reason he wins is because he hits good match-ups. It's really simple; decks he beats managed to knock out the decks he loses to. Realm Razer is KO for many decks, just like Armageddon in the heydays, especially in a format like this with fast aggro and strong anti-thesis in grinding control; it beats the grinding control and avoids the fast aggro (in this case, AiR counts as combo, and Elves is of course combo; they're both draw-dependant enough to have a chance of losing always).

Against combo...well, you hope they don't have a decent draw and that the players make mistakes (as just about everyone around here does) and play the standard aggro plan.

by corbox on 2009-01-27 06:58 EDT

by Magno- on 2009-01-27 10:08 GMT

Uhm, you shouldn't link the tutor with the halo because they are right behind each other. Any mono white list should play atleast 2 or 3 halo's (Main + side)

I just don't like the tutor at all. Turn 3 to get a turn 4 enchantment out? Well, not for me...

Don't like tutors at magic ? Then this sentence doesn't need anymore comments ... Especially if you don't find any other advantages to it than you quoted !

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 07:08 EDT

I'll say it again: I didn't play in any of those trials. I haven't played here for over a month.I have exams. Commenting takes 5 minutes. Playing in trials or masters takes much longer.

Again the deck isn't terrible in T2. Actually before silver played it some people had already top4ed trials with a similar deck. It didn't have Elvish Piper but it had bop, figure, woolly, bloom tender and realm razor so the plan was similar.

But again I still think it's stupid and just shows lazyness not to look at the extended card pool to see if there was something better. Yeah magma spray. Yesterday some "pros" were saying it's better than shock, etc because in this deck it doesn't need to go to the face. Well magma spray removes just finks and 1 in a million times a hulk which no one actually plays. But Helix would actually help you survive vs zoo and burn. And the mana base could be much better. Some fetchs and duals are obviously missing. Pains and Jungle Shrine need to go. Some filter lands are actually fine.

Now he got 2nd and 1st in 2 extended trials. In the master he went 3-3. So in swiss he failed hard. In this one it seems like he faced 2 good decks. WOW you beat 2 good decks in 6 rounds. Congratz. So he doesn't always get lucky. Just in the rounds he needs to. The other ones he faces terrible decks.

And I'm the one with no life? I mean I'm not the one who thinks that guy is an hero for being lazy and playing his t2 deck in extended.

And why would I play faeries' mirrors if I'm not playing faeries?

Sihk: the problem isn't going rogue. A good rogue deck is one that is built for an expected meta and attacks it in a way that you clearly have an advantage in that tournament if the meta turns out like you expect. However picking a t2 deck for extended isn't going rogue. It's going random. He doesn't expect a meta and he didn't steak anything to beat the expected decks.

When Verdana won with RW Lark playing some new ideas like burn spells, meadowgrain over finks, mutavault and rustic clachan I thought it was cool. I ended up realizing mutavault was way too risky and rustic clachan wasn't needed and I didn't have that many kithkins. However meadowgrain and burn were nice changes. The guy acted like he was the best but at least he won with something decent. However everyone went at him for being so full of himself just for winning a trial on m-l. But with silver it's different. Everyone thinks he's an hero even though he's also full of himself.

This is why mtgo is good. Next time someone says mtgo's worst part is that it isn't free, I'll link them to these trials and say: "mtgo's best part is that it isn't free".

Now I dare you all who think he's the best to go play this crap card by card in your next ptq (actually just come to Portugal play the ptqs with that or even GP Hannover so I can have some byes).

by rentintin3 on 2009-01-27 08:01 EDT

You 2 should just play each other right now... Get it over with. Then TUGA you could bitch after he beat you down or Silver you would have to feel like some ext cards are better for your deck if you lose.

So play it out I want a winner...lol

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 08:08 EDT

I have a better idea: I'm gonna play against him with my pokemon deck and beat the hell out of him!

by rentintin3 on 2009-01-27 08:14 EDT

lol Sounds like you really don't want to prove anything? Your being a vag.

So i think you should talk shit unless your ready to prove your correct?

Really though you shouldn't say something bad about someones deck no matter how bad its seems to you unless your ready to throw down?

by Shagrath on 2009-01-27 08:21 EDT

m-l trials will allways be untruthful with the single-elimination format, cuz any person can have bad luck cuz of screw/flood/mulligan etc during a round. Besides masters, all the remaining tournaments are s-elim, so dont be surprised if a random deck wins.

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 08:23 EDT

tintin anytime you wanna get owned come see me in #care

by Kytep on 2009-01-27 08:25 EDT

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 06:08 CST

Commenting takes 5 minutes. Playing in trials or masters takes much longer.

--------------------------------------------

Tuga, I think you just did a better job than anyone else here in summing up why McHowl has more credibility than you do right now! :)

I would just change it slightly: "Commenting takes 5 minutes, anyone can do it, and you don't need to do anything to prove your points. Playing (and WINNING) in trials takes much longer, is much more difficult, and every win reduces the influence of 'luck', bad players, etc. and increases the likelihood that there is some real deckbuilding and/or play skill involved."

But I tend to be wordy. Maybe your original version is better after all. :)

Kytep

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 08:37 EDT

It means I don't have the time to play trials. And even if I did let's say I played Zoo. I had won in round 1 and 2 and than faced mono red burn and lost. Then the mono red would face martyr and lose. After that naya pile would face martyr and beat it. Does that prove anything? No it doesn't! It isn't swiss so the luck factor is higher.

And btw most wins in here don't mean a thing because at least 90% of the players here are terrible.

by corbox on 2009-01-27 08:55 EDT

kizito is a good player, no doubt about it !

by PV on 2009-01-27 08:55 EDT

Oh come on

You people equate winning with the deck being good, that is not true. Let's have no pretense this deck is good - it is not. Maybe, if you extendize it, it'd be good, but as it is, it's not good. It's actually quite terrible.

But that doesn't mean it can't win matches, and it doesn't mean silver is to blame. He wants to play a terrible deck - that's his business. You talk like he is offending you all for playing his deck - he is not, he is just playing the deck he wants to play and he happened to win some games with it, that's all.

Some days ago, affinity won a trial and no one said anything. I consider affinity to be close to as unplayable as this thing, and I almost wristed myself to death when two people top 8ed the gp. Still, two people top 8ed a GP with it. I still consider it unplayable, just like I consider this deck to be unplayable, but that doesn't mean it's never going to win or that other people can't play it.

by Trotsky1 on 2009-01-27 08:56 EDT

New challenge win a T1 trial with naya.dec then you have cemented yourself in the annuls of ml histroy as a true legend.

by Kytep on 2009-01-27 09:05 EDT

Here are McHowl's matchups and results from the 1/24 Trial:

Rd - Player - Deck - Rating - Results

1 - daniiha - BW Zoo (?) (1655) 2-1
2 - mishimakaz - Death Cloud - (1750) 2-0
3 - BYE
4 - Araeliz - Death Cloud - (1733) 2-1
5 - mrwegle - Burn - (1704) 2-1
6 - Dupredador - Affinity - (1786) 0-2

Here, McHowl AGAIN beat 3 players with 1700+ ratings, all top tier decks (except Round 1 again).

Tuga - Please note that he beat Death Cloud in this Trial. TWICE (4-1 games). So, you might be on to something with your eariler question: How DOES this deck beat Death Cloud? Hmm...something to ponder....

Kytep

by SkaTista on 2009-01-27 09:06 EDT

deck to beat Extended meta m-l : NAYA.

AHuhUAHAUahAa.

mimimi.

PS: Astekas >>> ALL

by rentintin3 on 2009-01-27 09:13 EDT

PV I am glad that you tested that deck to hell and back! Really though your absoluty right I can trust your info? In truth the deck might seem subpar but I think it has some really good matchups.

by Kytep on 2009-01-27 09:25 EDT

And, to be fair, McHowl's record in the Master, where he had a bit less success than he has seen in the other 2 Trials:

Rd - Player - Deck - Rating - Results

1 - BYE
2 - BYE
3 - Raybelfast - TEPS - (1536) 2-1
4 - Ehri - Faeries - (1902) 0-2
5 - Naemen - Hulk Breach - (1761) 2-0
6 - Noname1 - Dredge - (1809) 0-2
7 - PaUl0_BRA - Zoo - (1746) 2-0
8 - Lordlink - Faeries - (1695) 1-2

Again, top-level players (4 1700+, including an 1800+ and a the top-rated player in the entire LEAGUE). Granted, he lost to the two very top-tier players, but c'mon, I think we can forgive him for that; I hope our standard isn't "Unless you can beat # 1 all the time, you suck." (Although I'm not sure everyone here shares my sentiment...)

Even in his relatively "mediocre" performance here, he still managed to beat 2 1700+ players with reasonably good decks (Hulk Breach and Zoo), and threw in a TEPS win on top of it all.

I'm supplying these stats for those who are open-minded and self-confident enough to consider evidence in reaching a conclusion, rather than tenaciously holding onto their initial assumptions, evidence be damned, because they can't handle even the suggestion that they might be wrong about something...those of you in the latter category, please ignore (as I'm sure you will; remember, this is all "luck" anyway; there is NO WAY you could ever be wrong about anything. So, please, keep coming up with excuses why the evidence is wrong and/or doesn't matter...it's hilarious...).

Kytep

by Kytep on 2009-01-27 09:42 EDT

McHowl: I hope you are laughing your @$$ off at what you're stirring up here!! I truly envy you! :)

Kytep

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 09:50 EDT

PV: It can win some games yes but people are making him a god because he won those few games. However affinity is not a terrible deck. I wouldn't play it unless at one point it was gone and people had to devote most sb slots hating more than one deck (let's say elves right now and dredge from last season). If at one point no one could afford to use sb slots for aff I would play it. However in LA aff was a decent choice. It beats faeries and they weren't expecting teps probably. 2 did top8 because the field was full of faeries. When zoo loses to faeries and has a similar games vs combo as affinity and affinity isn't being hated out it's only natural affinity becomes the aggro deck of choice.

Kytep: we already know you're silver's biggest fan (bitch). So the in first trial he went 4-1. Remember this is m-l. 1700 means nothing (I have 1700 but I'm over 1850 both constructed and limited irl and I had more before 2-2ing a ptq and losing 40 points and top8ing a gpt and losing some more points). In that 4-1 he beat a random deck, burn (which should beat this easily but sometimes gets awkward draws) and 2 death cloud (still think any decent player with deathcloud can beat silver more than half of the time) and lost to affinity. In the master you say mediocre I say terrible. 3-3 in m-l is like 0-4 at a decent ptq but let's consider it a 3-3. When I go 3-3 at any tournament I'm not happy. Actually I'll be pretty disapointed. Anyway he beat TEPS, which he shouldn't but the guy is 1500. He beat hulk (which no one plays) and the narrow magma spray was good for once (other than killing finks and random hulks anything 1cc removal is better than this in extended). And he beat Zoo (again a decent zoo draw should beat this any day). He lost to 2 faeries and one of them is a good player (people don't realize you have to be good to play faeries just like in t2). And than he lost to the slowest combo in extended (both elves and teps are faster and better). I don't think any of this makes him a hero.

And if you envy silver you really fail man.

by tcook589 on 2009-01-27 10:07 EDT

Kytep what do McHowl's balls taste like?

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 10:11 EDT

by tcook589 on 2009-01-27 15:07 GMT

Kytep what do McHowl's balls taste like?

I couldn't have said it any better.

by Kytep on 2009-01-27 10:16 EDT

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 08:50 CST

Remember this is m-l. 1700 means nothing (I have 1700 but I'm over 1850 both constructed and limited irl...3-3 in m-l is like 0-4 at a decent ptq

----------------------------------

So tell me: Why did you suck so badly in M-L (by your own account: "1700 means nothing...I have 1700")? Why didn't your "irl" skills (of which we have no evidence except your word) carry you to victory over such terrible competition in M-L?

Or was that all "luck" too?

Kytep

by mrwegle on 2009-01-27 10:23 EDT

5 - mrwegle - Burn - (1704) 2-1
I won g1 easy
g2 I realy don't remember I remember just that he had burneton and few finks
g3 I didn't get my 3rd land till turn 6 with 2vortex in hand:(
I realy don't know what the problem if someone play deck that he loves even if it doesn't good

by wilier on 2009-01-27 10:35 EDT

batutinha tanta sorte vs tron :P

Mas o que fica para a historia e o resultado eu sei xD

Great player :'D

by Burton911 on 2009-01-27 11:12 EDT

Can anyone pls explain me the elvish pipers cause imo the are terrible.
Its a T2 Deck is no explanation cause i think they are bad in T2 as well since u can simple cast any crea (expect Realm Razar) anyway if got him online.

by ZW on 2009-01-27 11:14 EDT

The whole deck is terrible. Never use it.

by TEEBWAG on 2009-01-27 11:18 EDT

Tuga, you keep bitching about how terrible ml is and how it's not even good enough for testing. If that's the case, why don't you gtfo dude? It seems like everyone here hates you anyway.

by ZW on 2009-01-27 11:27 EDT

He's right though...it is terrible for testing when people use garbage like Naya and Mono White.

by Trotsky1 on 2009-01-27 11:30 EDT

Okay Lets focus on something we can hopefully all agree on, the results suggest the deck is doing something right for it to win so much. It's clearly suboptimal I do not think anyone disagrees on that.

When a deck is doing enough right to get these sort of results, its probably worth working out just what it is doing right what is causing it to win so much honing that and removing what its doing wrong.

This is what I think Ramp into Razor Realm may well be a viable extended stratergy. Alot of the combo decks in extended have no removal or very little so resolved realm the majorty of the time is game and you can realistically race them with acceleration, more so if you make a more combo orientated version with mox. The creatures in the deck allow it to act like a midrange deck and outpower zoo and other such decks.

Figure of destiny with a mana base upgrade would prob be better of being wild nactal maybe even kird ape that and throcatrs give you plenty of creatures to draw out removal early and allow resolved razer to win the game.

Elvish Piper, wilf leaf liege, ajani venegant, magma spray and bloom tender are prob not good enough for extended. Though Liege may be fine sb for rock match ups. Mosswort Bridge's cpt ability is more of a hinderance to the deck than it is a benefit. Equally treetop villages seem sub optinal in a deck looking to ramp its mana and thats game clincher destroys all land anyway.

Most the cards can just be replaced with upgrades even if the spells are not optimal the deck is well configured, or we could look at splashing black as that is entirly possible with extended and adding some hand disruption to pick out removal to allow us better chance and razor living, and further improving combo match.

Sorry if this some what ruins fun of T2 deck winnning in extd but lets try and look at this constructivly for christs sake rather than getting in a hissy fit cause something new is winning.

by Dracon_ian on 2009-01-27 11:53 EDT

Anyone just thought that silver is just good with the deck? I personally play a weak 5cc deck in T2, but i do well with it because I like the cards that are in it, I'm just not skilled enough to carry any deck to 1st.

People should chill out and just congratulate silver on his great finishes, I for one would never try ot play a T2 in an extended usless I have to, but that's personal choice.

I bet somewhere silver has been bragging about his ability to mates, and one has said bet you couldn't win T1.x with a T2 deck, and silver has gone "yeah I can", and has done it. I like that image, puts a smile on my face.

by Chaosweaver on 2009-01-27 12:11 EDT

You know, if Ronan did this, no one would question him.

Just because he isn't using Extended cards doesn't mean he shouldn't play his deck in extended.

Just buck up. Everyone who calls him a sack, or he sucks, or his list sucks, You suck. Sorry that he took you behind the shed and just raped you with a gag ball

by boeda on 2009-01-27 12:14 EDT

Tuga wrote: But w/e. It's funny to see no-lifers think someone is an hero because he plays a t2 deck in extended...

And then Tuga wrote:
I have a better idea: I'm gonna play against him with my pokemon deck and beat the hell out of him!

So you wanna beat the hero of 'no-lifers' to become a hero yourself?!
And pokemon is your best strategy??!

Just because this popped up into your head makes you... (sound of drums for extra tension):

The New Hero Of No-Lifers!!!!

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 12:15 EDT

Kytep maybe because I don't play much? I had over 1800 here but than testing some deck in trials going 2-1 or 1-1 always decreased my rating. Anyway you still haven't answered: what do McHowl's balls taste like?

boeda: I know some people don't realize but it was a joke. I don't know how to play pokemon...

by Dragonmast3r on 2009-01-27 12:31 EDT

i lol'ed

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 12:31 EDT

And btw: I'm no hero...

by Trotsky1 on 2009-01-27 12:40 EDT

Childish insults and name calling add nothing to a debate and only impress the simple minded, sadly a good few people on this site currently fall into that category.

Also generalised statements with no substance to back them up are worthless.

The vast majorty of the criticisms of SilverMcHowls deck fall into these two categories.

Also all the negative comments about general play level on the site have no real way of comparing them to other events such as PTQ's, you still get alot of weak players even at PTQ level certainly in the UK so are nothing more than conjuncture. Though I concede you can make a valid argument that yes its not upto pro tour standards but no other tournaments are.

by ZW on 2009-01-27 12:43 EDT

Even PV is saying his deck has really bad, so seriously, everyone of you scrubs who think the deck is good, stfu. It's horrible.

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 12:46 EDT

Yeah I mean, usually when PV talks all the randoms agree with him just to look good and give the impression they know what they're talking about (if PV says moonlace is good vs storm I think some will agree lol). But this time I think they're so happy sucking silver's balls to even realize PV said the deck is bad.

by Verdana on 2009-01-27 12:49 EDT

who cares? he won a trial on ml, big deal.

..just move on.

by Trotsky1 on 2009-01-27 12:50 EDT

Actually if you read what he said he said the deck was bad because it was not extendised but could perhasp be good if it was. I do not think anyone is saying the deck is optimal or good but your choosing to focus on the negative rather than the positives that as PV aluded too there could be a new deck for the meta here, more decks more healthy meta.

by snoopster on 2009-01-27 12:50 EDT

It's more embarrassing that half of magic-league floods these pages with direct insults to Silver than it is that he won with that deck. With that said, yeah, the deck is terrible. PV was right: any deck is capable of winning anything, and he clearly got lucky and his opponents probably misplayed like crazy against him.

That doesn't mean people should randomly start flaming each other, though. Silver can play whatever deck he wants, and the fact that he won should be honored because it's a substantial feat, not because he broke the metagame, is an amazing player, is an idiot, or "owned noobs."

by ChristPunchr on 2009-01-27 12:53 EDT

wtf x 40@t2 deck winnning. If I was loam deck guy, I'd probably have punched the shit out of myself for somehow losing. Poor bastard got force-fed a humble buffet, never mind a pie.

kikikikikikijijijijiajiajaijaijaijaijaiaijaijaija

I live in a barrio!

jijkmkjikjijijijiajijijaijaijaij

Wait, nm. My ancestors owned a sugar plantation, so everyone else lives in a barrio. I live in a mansion.

kekekekekekekekekekekekekekspaspaspaspaspaspaswaswaswa

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 13:02 EDT

Verdana: although I actually like you, you shouldn't say that because when you won the first trial you were acting like you were the best.

Anyway if you read the first comments I made in the first extended trial he top4ed I didn't insult anyone. Just said the deck was bad and then some morons started making him an hero, insulting me and anyone else who dared say the deck was bad. After this Silver posted feeling proud of all this crap.

When he did well with the naya pile in t2 I never said anything. I thought "lol elvish piper" but that's it.

by Drag0n on 2009-01-27 13:18 EDT

OMG OMG OMG

Tugachampion, just shut up! So much garbage you're posting... u are just a lucky bastard like him.. but obviously lacking skill!

Here are tugachampion's ratings:

http://webapp.wizards.com/ratings.aspx?action=search_member&personid=2150056&brandid=1

by FlyingFreak on 2009-01-27 13:45 EDT

PV: u really hate affinity don't u ? :p

congrats SilverMcHowl btw, I still think that deck is terrible but u won ...

by tin_cup on 2009-01-27 13:45 EDT

First of all... I don't like this Naya. I think it's crap.

Second, I think M-L always was a place to get ideas, not to test. I got some really good ideas from time to time from this site. Hell, i even won a PTQ tuning a deck from a trial!

That said, I love it when rogue decks go well in m-l. It means this site still does it's job, even if I didn't gain any new ideas from this trial. The guy who won with this "pile" (which i think it's the worst deck i ever saw in extended) should be lucky AND play at least better than his opponents, if not good. So Kudos for him.

About you TugaChampion. Yes, you are no hero. That's for sure. IMO you are a really immature guy who doesn't know what is important and what isn't.
When i read your comments it was like i saw a 5 year old boy crying because his classmates worshipped another boy over him. If you are looking for a friendly advice you should listen to dv8r.
I am not that friendly. Get a life and/or a playtest group.

SilverMcHowl I would never play that deck, but, congrats!

by Verdana on 2009-01-27 13:59 EDT

well Tuga that's kind of the point, he's barely posted twice here, not bragging about how good he or his deck are.

So...

All in all it's just a deck no one would ever play proving once again that m-l hasn't the sharpest minds playing here.

It's like losing to crap like All In Red, you just have to suck it up.

Imagine it as a very subpar build of Doran (fine, a really subpar build) or GW turbohate (already a bad deck). some of the cards (finks, birds, treetop, "doran" and garruk) are played in those decks.

Although some numbers are really bizarre (like 3 birds in a deck with 11 3 drops, no 2 drops except the bloom tenders and lots of 4 drops), I can see it winning vs bad builds of good decks/bad players, add to that a little luck on the pilot's side and actually knowing how to play the game, and it wins a trial.

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 14:14 EDT

Actually he posted several times if you count the other trial.

tin_cup: I don't think you know what rogue means. There's a difference between rogue and random. Rogue is a deck that might not be that amazing once known or once the metagame shifts but it's can be a good call for a certain tournament if you expect a specific meta. Tezzeret in Berlim is a good exemple. And even better one is the monored Dragonstorm in Worlds 2007. This however is a random pile from t2 played in extended. It's has no metagame thoughts on it and the only reason he played it is because he's lazy.

Anyway Dragon: I think my ratings aren't nothing to be ashamed of. And at least I'm not the one who lost a PTQ final to swerve due to bad blocks. Yup, you fail.

SWERVE!!!

by ChiDoRiE on 2009-01-27 14:40 EDT

rofl silvermchowl trying to be funny, thinking his deck is good coz he does well in ml trials

son im BAD at magic and im 2/2 for making finals of masters..accomplishments here dont mean shit and ur deck is TERRIBLE

by ZW on 2009-01-27 14:49 EDT

lol

by Qamiqaze on 2009-01-27 15:55 EDT

give silvermchowl the props he deserves.

by Lantero on 2009-01-27 16:03 EDT

The diference between T2 rogue deck and Competitive extended decks is speed (mana base, cheaper efective spells like helix) and specific hate cards. If those hate cards are irrelevant vs the t2 deck, and bad draws makes your ext deck slower, u will be in the card advantadge war vs the t2 deck, and u can lose.

-Is that T2 deck bad in Extended? Yes, much.
-Is Silver a good player? Probably.
-Are some Silver opps bad players? Probably.
-Had Silver good luck (or their opps bad luck)? For sure, he needed it.
-Is this situation quite funny? OMG of course :lol:

by Yatre on 2009-01-27 16:03 EDT

roflmao thats how good ML is for u buddies..

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 16:42 EDT

OMG Silver chalanged me for an extended match. I accepted and I won 2-0. I must be the best player in the world OMG!!!

by ZW on 2009-01-27 16:48 EDT

dude...have u considering going to a pro tour??? U'd prolly win.

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 16:48 EDT

Yup I hear all the pros play t2 naya in extended.

by corbox on 2009-01-27 16:50 EDT

Tuga I know you love crying but please even if it seems to be impossible for you don't overfill this page with your stupid flood please ...

by ik on 2009-01-27 18:00 EDT

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 13:48 PST

Yup I hear all the pros play t2 naya in extended.

...I heard TugaChampion was a fucking idiot oO

by Lynolf on 2009-01-27 18:54 EDT

TugaChampion > All

That's why you're the champion. ;)

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 19:42 EDT

by ik on 2009-01-27 23:00 GMT

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 13:48 PST

Yup I hear all the pros play t2 naya in extended.

...I heard TugaChampion was a fucking idiot oO

You heard wrong. It was clearly ik not tugachampion.

by Kytep on 2009-01-27 19:53 EDT

Do you guys think that perhaps the whole "You're [insert insult here]!" "Am not! You are!" "Nuh-uh! YOU are!" kind of stuff might be...oh, say a BIT more embarassing to the League than a new player piloting a rogue ("random", whatever) deck to victory?

Or shall we rename this "Kindergarten-League" so that more accurate expectations can be set?

Kytep

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-27 20:15 EDT

it should be renamed to orgy-league.

by SilverMcHowl on 2009-01-27 21:06 EDT

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-28 01:15 GMT

it should be renamed to orgy-league.
_________________________________________

Agreed.

by skathe on 2009-01-27 21:19 EDT

ok, obviously this deck is doing well in single-elimination events. and did poorly in a master. would we like to examine why instead of being jackasses about it?

in single elim events, the EFFECT of your opponents having bad draws, having to take multiple mull's, mana screw/flood/etc is much greater. however, in multi elim events, such as a master, the EFFECT is actually much lower, since your opponents can take losses and still end up on top. that's why large events are designed that way.

in this case, it's the same player forcing the same deck and no one taking it seriously. so there's no hate. hate DOES exist and get played HEAVILY for every OTHER "tier 1" deck in the format, so of course you see different decks performing consistantly high.

so, you throw a deck into a format where no one is playing hate for it, and combine it with tournament structures that allow for lucky players playing bad decks to rise to the top, and you get the current results.

the deck isn't bad. it's not great. extendize it and it's still pretty mediocre as far as extended decks go. but don't sit here and post comment after comment and bash on people cuz they're taking advantage of a situation. the guy has obviously piloted the deck a bagillion times. playing against people that netdecked, goldfished a few times, and made mistakes. oh well.

bottom line: Tuga is an immature ass and deserves all of the abuse he's getting for talking shit since he's getting butthurt over nothing, but all of you who are making SilverMcHowl your golden calf should probably just DIAF.

btw: tendrils storm is the best deck in this format. and it's not close.

by odin_sphere on 2009-01-27 21:35 EDT

lolz @ sore losers

by GUnit on 2009-01-27 22:11 EDT

@ Tuga:

You looked at his exact 75/75 and then picked his worst possible matchup and won 2-0... congratulations.

Tell me, or any other player in the world, which deck you're playing before we play a match, and I can guarantee you'll lose the majority of the time.

by Boogaloo on 2009-01-27 23:49 EDT

Ah hahaaa hahaaaaaaaa

by Dakkon555 on 2009-01-28 00:29 EDT

why do i see pain lands in an extended deck? :/

by Kurse on 2009-01-28 02:08 EDT

btw: tendrils storm is the best deck in this format. and it's not close.

-------------------

Trickbind. Huzzah!!!

by SilverMcHowl on 2009-01-28 04:36 EDT

Drakkon, have you not been reading the comments? It's not an extended deck, it's a standard deck.

by Egnirys on 2009-01-28 05:08 EDT

Wtf man
Silver mate I reckon the whole thing is worth it just to stir this amount of crap

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-28 06:06 EDT

GUnit: the point was defeating him. I mean I didn't really felt that necessary but after some people suggested it, silver itself wanted to have a best of 3 war with me. I accepted and played the deck I've been testing and that I will play in at least the first PTQ. For GP Hannover I doubt I'll take it but there's still plenty of time for that.

by Tiggy on 2009-01-28 06:18 EDT

well what do i see here?
T2 deck winning...ok...is it good? is the player good? The deck is bad,and from what i read the player is an idiot... -> "Hang on now. It's entirely possible that I've topped 4, 2nd, and 1st in standard trials, and then 2nd and 1st in extended trials completely by luck. I mean, that's the only possible explanation, right?"

no dwd...you are the greatest player ever!!!! see? i also can be sarcastic :]

the deck sucks so stop bashing on Tugachapion just because..HE IS RIGHT! if you support the deck and the player...fine...go ahead...better yet i hope everybody support him so i can get naya players every round of the ptq season...oh wait...if i get that...i wont need to play a second ptq cause that deck is so bad that i probably would win even if i would play bad. now here is the point you are going to beggin with: "OH YOU ARE SO GOOD SO HOW COME YOU HAVE 1600 ou wtf on rating here on magic league..." in advance..i dont play on magic league because of things like the deck that is on first place.and the second is when pv does something...everyone takes it like " a gift from god " <insert church music here>

nada contra ti pv apenas n gosto de impostores.

tuga ve se tas calado LOOL so armas merda :P

and FYI Drag0n is a tranny at full time..you can check his webpage here : www.enterthedrag0ns.ass

Keep up the good work...now i have something to read when i´m at work.

Bubay

by Weedmonkey on 2009-01-28 06:19 EDT

To all the trolls: If you don't like SilverMcHowl winning with his T2 Naya deck that he was playing for fun, leave the league. Simple.

by Weedmonkey on 2009-01-28 06:19 EDT

To all the trolls: If you don't like SilverMcHowl winning with his T2 Naya deck that he was playing for fun, leave the league. Simple.

by Black_Dog on 2009-01-28 06:35 EDT

Silver played for fun and won. props to him.

The deck isn't good.

Tuga is really that fuckwit Tom LaPille in disguise b/c they both bitch and moan the same.

Kytep gives a great rimjob.

by TheBends on 2009-01-28 06:41 EDT

You guys are so lamme, tuga can post whatever he wants you guys are so flamming and talking shit about tuga that isnt necessary. Everyone knows the deck sucks so whats the problem? :/.

by Lenin on 2009-01-28 06:46 EDT

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU how did I miss this trial I could have beaten that pile of ...

by tonybello1 on 2009-01-28 06:50 EDT

Tiggy read this: Shut the fuck up!

I really like this forum...
Play what you really want to play, it's a good policy start the gaming with that. who cares if dont have meta purposes or all kind of trap that have been saying. m-l isn't a real tournement so play fair and don't be a jerk...

Amen

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-28 07:00 EDT

tonybello: "all kind of trap that have been saying." ROFL. I never saw anyone talk "trap". GG RANDOM

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-28 07:04 EDT

Black_Dog: I dunno Tom LaPille but I moan really loud when I have sex. I guess no one knows how you moan when you have sex because not even a fat ugly girl would have sex with you

by Lynolf on 2009-01-28 07:41 EDT

I think the true question that still remains in the air is:

Is this still magic-league?

by PaUl0_BRA on 2009-01-28 08:50 EDT

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-28 09:36 EDT

Kytep I don't know if you can read this (you seem very busy tasting silver's balls) but the "mediocre" performance at master just became terrible. A 2-3 beating a bad player with TEPS and a non-existent deck (Hulk) and yup that's probably the only situation where magma spray is superior to most removal (besides the obvious finks).

by Xarls on 2009-01-28 10:12 EDT

Yeah we could ask for complete coverage to see the circumstances in which that naya deck won. Actually I could tell you all about my horrible match but let's just don't be a crier. The thing is that it won, we shouldn't blame him but gratz him (or, if you can't gratz him, just keep quiet lol)

Also, Boxxy

by Conkisstador on 2009-01-28 11:21 EDT

This is by far the msot epic thread i've witnessed here.

For those who do not appreciate what ML offers: Look only at GPs... ML players are GIVING KUDOS to the site in their interviews! how is that not proof enough for you?

yes there are bad players
but where can you test more efficiently as far as new lists and revolving metagames? this site in large part defines the metagame by the time PTQ #1 hits.

And to the haters of a t2 deck winning 1.x quit your whining. T2 decks can win VINTAGE events for the same reason already posted: large-pool formats pack so much metagamed cards that just playing 5turn stompy JUST wins.
decks are built in designed millions times over. each has a theme. they do what they do. sometimes they fit in that niche. it may be that naya aggro belongs in extended the trick is which deck-sonctruction rules to break?
1 and 2 cost spells are succeptable to spell snare, spellstutter sprite, and engineered explosives?
tarmogoyf alone merits 4slots in most decks (an answer to it, i mean) so make those cards dead?
fetchlands can be stifled?
if a control deck can play 6cost win cards, why can't aggro?

those are 4 presumptions that may need to be revisted by any player. i don't think the naya deck is optimal even considering those parameters, but to Silver's testament- he's waiting to see which cards fill which gaps.

congratulations to anyone who ever wins a game of magic because it ALWAYS takes some skill and that deserves due merit.

\o/

by ChristPunchr on 2009-01-28 13:07 EDT

Maybe a standard deck winning will make more people play decks that don't get destroyed by random jank.

by Chaosweaver on 2009-01-28 13:25 EDT

Tuga didn't even top 4 why is he bitching again?

by ZW on 2009-01-28 15:32 EDT

he didn't play...stfu

by geestyler on 2009-01-28 15:32 EDT

ROFL! You're not really insulting him, only because he plays his deck good? God.. It's the same as everywhere, the "pro's" think, all what beats them, is lucky and basically crap. I like this deck, 'cause it's so random. :D So stop crying around, it won't help.

by Lantero on 2009-01-28 15:33 EDT

Maybe he is a bot designed for that.

by CMA-Flippi on 2009-01-28 18:55 EDT

TugaChampion wrote:
. It's has no metagame thoughts on it and the only reason he played it is because he's lazy.

-> He has made metagame thoughts. He realized denying your opponents mana in turn 3 works well so he played it. And, as you can see at the results - it did work.

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-28 20:32 EDT

Flippi you're better than that. He admitted that he didn't know extended at all and just played his T2 deck. That's clearly not metagame thoughts. That's like flipping a coin and saying it's going to stand on the vertical.

by CMA-Flippi on 2009-01-28 20:38 EDT

thats like playing vintage with a threshold deck.

by Mastikor on 2009-01-28 22:52 EDT

SilverMcHowl's Naya Aggro Deck is one of the most kick-ass deck i've ever seen! good job dude! You deseve it! You have broken the two formats! \m/

by Kytep on 2009-01-29 00:48 EDT

After all of this fun, I thought I'd sum up my points and also clarify a few things (it seems I may have been a little too subtle for some):

First, I did NOT mean to say or imply that I believe SilverMcHowl's deck and/or playing ability is/are necessarily good (or not good, for that matter; I am intentionally reserving my opinion on these points for now; see point # 3, below)

Here are the things I WAS trying to say/imply:

1) Let's give the winner his congrats, *especially* someone who is apparently new to the league and even MtG as a whole (albeit by his own account, which I cannot verify; but let's err on the side of "welcome" and "congrats" rather than "lucksack" and "noob"). McHowl is living the rogue deck builder's dream: Dominiating multiple Trials with his creation, even outside of format. Definitely worth warm congrats, not spite, regardless of whether he's winning by "luck" or by skill.

2) Even if a deck - or even the player - DOES "suck" (which is hard/impossible to *prove*; it's just an opinion, after all), but he/she still wins, let's revert back to # 1, above. (Although if they act like a total ass, we might might to reconsider... ;)

3) Let's be careful about allowing our opinions to intefere with our ability to learn, and let's be open to evidence which runs counter to our intuition. That's not to say that winning multiple trials *necessarily* means that a deck is good. But it should make us pause and think, something along these lines: "Hmmm...what could explain this? Crappy opponents? Doesn't look like it; he beat mostly 1700+ people...Top-decking/lucky draws? Not likely with repeated success, per the Law of Averages...The deck hit a vulnerable hole in the metagame, either by fortune or design? This seems plausible, perhaps some more investigation here..."

Unfortunately, it seems that some here fall prey to their own egos/self-esteem issues, and refuse to admit that their initial reaction/opinion could possibly be wrong, even in the face of counter-evidence (e.g., "his opponents must have sucked!" (No, turns out they were mostly 1700+) "Well, then, 1700 is meaningless"). Sadly, this severely limits learning. If you think you already know everything and anything that does not agree with your current opinion is wrong, you are done growing.

4) Finally, and most sadly, there are some here who really need to grow up. A LOT. (Thankfully, there are also many mature people here.) I understand that there are a lot of teenagers playing in this league, that they are not done maturing yet, and that they will eventually grow out of their current childish attitudes. But it's still incredibly annoying and embarassing (for the league), and some here don't even live up to the maturity standards of an 8-year-old, let alone a teenager.

To those of you who already abide by the above, thanks. To those who do not, I implore you: Please read my points and reconsider.

Thanks,
Kytep

by CB on 2009-01-29 01:30 EDT

Amen to that brotha!

by aldaryn on 2009-01-29 02:17 EDT

kytep wins

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-29 07:48 EDT

Flippi: I don't know much about Legacy and know nothing about Vintage. If I took threshold to a Vintage tourney (or any non-vintage deck) and won it surely wouldn't have been for a righ meta call. It would have been by pure luck. I mean if he knew the extended meta and tested his T2 deck and realized "oh this actually is a nice meta call" it would be a very smart move. Still he would change at least some cards (don't tell me there isn't a single card from extended that doesn't fit better in both the meta and the naya deck than a card he's playing from T2). This actually takes a magic genious. But that's not the case. He took it because it was the deck he was playing in T2. Don't make him something that he isn't.

ROFL @ Kytep winning. So winning and 2nd in a m-l trial (I'm not talking about the deck in T2 where it is probably decent) is hardly repeated success. And there are several players who are +1700 (not only here but also irl and in MTGO, I've seen 1800 constructed players making obvious mistakes). You say he can't have been lucky "per the Law of Averages" but 2 trials isn't much. Over 3 tourneys he's 6-0 + 2-3 + 4-1 (I'm obv not counting byes nor the match he won 2-0 because Paulo forgot to drop). That's 12-4 which is nice but it wouldn't allow him to top8 a ptq (6-2) unless he had good tie breakers and with a few less players it would have been 7 rounds.

Let's now consider his losses: Affinity, 2 faeries and dredge. I don't think we'll be seeing much dredge in PTQs because the deck is only good if no one is packing graveyard hate and loam+raven's crime appearing made people pack extirpates, crypts and relic. Considering the deck also plays several enablers that cost 2, Spell Snare hurts the deck a lot. Affinity looks like it replaced, at least for a while, zoo as the aggro deck of choice. It beats faeries maindeck and than depends on the hate they pack but that's 2 games and the last one affinity is on the play. You're probably going to face it in a ptq. And Faeries doesn't need an explanation. You're going to face it although not many will play it perfectly.

He beat 6 bad/random/un-played decks: Mono W 8 Post, Goblins, All-in Red, Mono W Control, BW Zoo and Hulk Breach. So half of those wins were against these. Yes you'll see all-in red and you might see martyr. But those decks have serious flaws and players are getting away from them (maybe martyr can cover its flaws finding the right meta but it's unlikely and it's not a good bet to win a ptq as you'll probably face 1 impossible match up and it can very likely happen in the top8). Hulk is not bad but no one is playing it.

He beat 6 good decks: Elves, GB Rock, Death Cloud, Death Cloud, TEPS and burn. TEPS was a 1500 and he shouldn't win more than 1 in 10 games against TEPS. Elves also seems unlikely for him to beast usually. Burn is even at the least because sometimes they are too fast. Deathcloud I don't see how it's a good match up but I'll have to accept it's a good match up as I'm obv not going to test.

Given all this his wins are easy to explain: bad opps/decks in at least 7 of his wins and some amount of luck in at least 3 of his wins (teps doubles as luck bad opp).

His 4 losses were to bad match ups, one which doesn't mean much, the other 3 mean a lot.

All in all this is hardly "hitting a vulnerable hole in the metagame" it was a combination of luck, bad opps and bad decks. Luck striked when needed, he probably played well or else bad opps with good decks could have won.

by Kytep on 2009-01-29 10:25 EDT

Thank you, Tuga - That was a *MUCH* more thoughtful and useful response. I think we're getting somewhere now, and you make some very good points.

One question I would pose to you (and to anyone else, for that matter, because I think this is a good question): What makes a deck "good" in your eyes? How do you define "good" when it comes to MtG decks? Virtually *EVERY* deck has bad matchups (those which don't tend to get neutered via bannings), and many/most decks can beat at least *some* other decks, so most decks are "good" vs. some deck types but "bad" vs. others.

But what makes a deck "good" *in general*? Does it depend on the meta? Or is there something that makes a certain list of 60/75 cards intrinsically "good"? If so, what is that?

PS: I didn't mean to suggest that he did or did not actually "hit a vulnerable hole in the metagame"; I was just using that an an example to illustrate my point of *how* we might want to think.

PPS: Intuitively, I believe that Naya aggro would probably have a favorable matchup vs. Death Cloud, partly because of the land-based mana-intensity of DC, partly because DC's removal seems sub-par vs. Naya (Damnation and Smother can't touch Razer; Smother can't touch Leige either), and partly due to discard (mainly Crime) vs. Wilt-Leaf Leige. But this is speculation; I may of course be missing a lot here.

Thanks,
Kytep

by TugaChampion on 2009-01-29 11:47 EDT

If you watch closely, besides those direct insults (specially to you), I actually back up my opinion with arguments. Check out Crazy's topic where he interviews Silver and even Silver knows that.

by Mastikor on 2009-01-29 21:44 EDT

I see a rival around here lol =)

Maybe its because I'm not playing trials anymore, maybe its time for me to be active again lol =))

Kudos to SilverMcHowl he just simply "OUTPLAYED" his opponents. =)

by totolcc on 2009-04-02 12:55 EDT

i like the deck... and luck alone can't win all those matches... I've seen worse decks make huge wins just thanks to the people playing them... I only can atribute this wins to a combination of a good and resourcefull t2 deck, a good player, and a bit of luck, since every champion needs that little star of luck...

Maybe someday you'll see one deck that won't make any sense on top 5 'cause like other players here i create decks through random ideas and play those decks instead of just copying some1's great idea...

Congrats to SilverMcHowl