July 2008 T2 Deck lists: Uw Merfolk, RB Tokens, Rg Beats

by Eldariel on 2008-06-24 09:47 MDT

Weirdest Rg Beats list I've seen in a while. Goblin King? Really? And if you play green, you may as well play Tarmogoyf.

by Finntroll on 2008-06-24 10:17 MDT

the RG list looks more like a goblin deck. The only non-goblin creatures are the magus of the moons, which enable the goblin kings.

I don't see why you need to use green, it's basically a mono-red deck. If you fear enchantments that much to run green, you might as well run goofy, like Eldariel said. It might not be a goblin, but he's played in Elf decks and he isn't an elf. And what's the deal with disintegrate and burn trail? I mean, I guess I can kind of see why you'd run burn trail even though there's better burn out there (rift bolt for starters)...but disintegrate? You only run 22 lands, it's not like it's going to hit for a lot.

by khim on 2008-06-24 10:19 MDT

i was testing my real life deck, and since i dont have tarmo in real life

by [Ger]Ravager on 2008-06-24 10:45 MDT

so ur real life deck doesnt seem to perform badly.

by SOAD on 2008-06-24 10:59 MDT

^--Complete true. that means: Nice deck tho'

by ManaLeak on 2008-06-24 11:21 MDT

gj sandochie

by Jayzus on 2008-06-24 12:07 MDT

Finntroll, disintigrate doens't have to reach for that much in this deck. I'd say the purpose of either disintigrate or burn trail is squeezing out the last 6 or so damage.

by onecleanceli on 2008-06-24 12:10 MDT

disintegrate helps vs lark too

by Jayzus on 2008-06-24 12:36 MDT

The RG Beats deck seems to have a terrible curve. What's the plan turn 2? Isn't that exactly when you need to be laying a second aggro threat to get your damage in?

by mojo_jojo on 2008-06-24 12:55 MDT

Disintegrate does not help very much with Lark, as you'd have to disintegrate mulldrifter or something. If you disintegrate lark it still triggers.

by Shagrath on 2008-06-24 13:18 MDT

No1 can convince me that ponder is better than ancestral vision.

by ChuckNorris on 2008-06-24 13:21 MDT

I like how we're basically splashing for treetop village.

Good job though.

by whateverdude on 2008-06-24 13:22 MDT

thats why u arent winning trials

by Manipulation on 2008-06-24 15:22 MDT

There's a couple things the green can do. Treetop Village in the main, fight Faeries with Firespout in the side, and use Seal of Primordium on...whatever you need to (typically BB or O-Ring, I assume). Burn Trail is an odd choice, how does it work compared to Rift Bolt?

by ZW on 2008-06-24 17:06 MDT

This shows how good an optimal red green aggro would be,as he used his real life list missing important cards and still placed very well.

by sandoiche on 2008-06-24 17:12 MDT

1 - u cant say that a list is optimal if it places ONCE in a trial (also, its not terrible too). A trial is not a good parameter to which decks are good and which arent

2 - in merfolks deck, you need to be the beatdown and race your opponent in 99% of matchups. Vision is better in matchups of atrition (like BG elves), but ponder reachs ur perfect curve in most matchups u need to defeat ur opp before he starts doing something, while vision is a vulnerable (sweeper, counters, venser) and slow card.

by ZW on 2008-06-24 18:02 MDT

I didn't say it was optimal, I said it wasn't optimal, and he was missing good cards. It shows how good r/g is now, because a relatively weak list placed so well.

by PsyK on 2008-06-24 18:38 MDT

His deck isn't as suboptimal as you think. I'll agree that it does lack good 2nd turn play, goyf would be nice if he could afford them. However if you didn't notice one thing this deck does nicely is push the last bits of damage through without relying on burn. That's really important in the current creature heavy format because you could find that the last bit of damage to push through is freakin huge! His deck avoids the problem a normal red aggro deck has atm of being intercepted by too many creatures, in particular treetop village and mutavault. It needs some tuning, but i love the use of goblin king, magus of the moon and vexing shusher to eliminate a lot of the problems aggro decks have in this format!

by sandoiche on 2008-06-24 18:49 MDT

I understand your point now, but I dont think Vexing shusher solves "a lot of the problems" for aggro decks... Since the most aggro decks are the ones that have better matchup against Faeries deck (Merfolks, BG elves, Mono Red/goyf)

But shusher is actually good in deck because it is a 2 turn drop, and its a goblin, also think u could play it as a 4 of as well.

Obviously if the RG deck gets some tuning and consistent results, I will have to agree its at least considerable as a good deck in current T2.

by Richterk on 2008-06-25 17:01 MDT

You guys put so much on goyf, but in most of the good decks in the format, goyf isn't even used anymore. Honestly at this point against most decks in the format, I would rather have a Kitchen Finks in hand than a Tarmogoyf. Tarmogoyf is good, but it's no longer an auto-in, and honestly, I can think of several other two drops that are way better in the fast beats deck. Shusher gives you answers late game where goyf is a big goon. Plus, goyf is a huge target for removal. I have played with goyf so much since it entered the format, and I've won a lot more games due to other cards than I have actually won because of goyf.

by Richterk on 2008-06-25 17:01 MDT

It's just simply not as good as it's given credit for. And oh yeah, it gets hit by every major removal card being played in the format, and even a bad player will hit it before anything else on the field.

by sandoiche on 2008-06-25 19:53 MDT

Tarmogoyf got a lot worst since Bitterblossom (well, i cant actually remember any non-burn card that havent got worst :P)

by RaiSalcedo on 2008-06-25 23:21 MDT

the time of tarmogoyf had passed... Richterk was right! ^_^ ... good bording Sandioche... job well done bro! GO MERFOLKS!! MERFOLKS FTW!!

by Dalranth on 2008-06-26 05:22 MDT

Lost to Heikki in R5 2-1..I was playing RG Ramp, so I was pretty bummed to lose a good matchup. Hard to beat the RB deck when they have T1 Gargadon t2 Bitterblossom all 3 games =(

by cymagic on 2008-06-29 01:40 MDT

the top 3 decks are cool.

RG beats list looks unprecedented
i guess khim runs burn trail so that when tattermunge maniac can no longer go through its not a dead (literally) creature on the board. goblin king and liege just makes those critters awfully big.

i agree with jayzus.. whats the turn two play??

by TugaChampion on 2008-06-29 18:21 MDT

I'll start playing grizzly bears instead of tarmogoyf because they kill it...

I mean yes it will get hit by removal but that means it's that good. And if they dont have removal die get beaten by a 4/5 for 2. Susher is a 2/2 for 2 in most games and dies to the same things goyf dies (and you can kill it with burn way easier). And since when a 2/2 is better than a 5/6 or better in the late game?

by TheInferno on 2008-06-30 23:47 MDT

Mana Tithe helped me win multiple races at regs w/ merfolk. You should try it.

by _SM0KE_ on 2008-07-02 10:14 MDT

by sandoiche on 2008-06-25 19:53 MDT

Tarmogoyf got a lot worst since Bitterblossom (well, i cant actually remember any non-burn card that havent got worst :P)

Chameleon Colossus?