July 2008 T2 Deck lists: UB Faeries, Kithkin WW, UW 'Lark

by Eldariel on 2008-06-04 21:17 MDT

Woah, haven't seen WW Top 4 in Standard for a while. I guess the meta is ripe for it though. GJ.

by MistyFatDog on 2008-06-04 21:22 MDT

go kithkin s!

by usegoals on 2008-06-04 21:32 MDT

I thought Kithkin was a good matchup against Faeries. Bad draws?

by gypsy on 2008-06-04 21:44 MDT

in block it does prob not in t2

by Eldariel on 2008-06-04 21:47 MDT

I find the "Bad draws"-explanation more likely. However, since it's hardly better than 55/45 in T2, i'm not really surprised. Kith are further harmed by not having access to Sunlances. Also, Spectral Procession is another keycard vs. the Fae. So this build probably has much worse a Fae MU than the Block-build. Soltari Priest is big, of course, but the build doesn't exactly have much in ways of boosting it, so it'll take time to finish the job.

by gypsy on 2008-06-04 22:33 MDT

also damnation after sb is huge. kithkin in block isnt rly white weenie, it is aggressive but it still has these huge drops that make 1 for 1 removal useless in ranger and spectral procesion. the terrors are a lot better vs kithkin in t2 then inversion in block and this kithkin doesnt have as much reach with mirrorweave, so it losing to faeries, if it did lose and dindt drop, doesnt rly suprise me. nothing losing to faeries surprises me

by aldaryn on 2008-06-04 22:51 MDT

Kithkin could be good in type 2, but all the good things about the block version are gone here: Why not play Cloudgoat Ranger, Procession, Windbrisk Heights, etc in T2? Are they that bad?

by NonEsDignus on 2008-06-04 23:34 MDT

I think that version is too slow for Standard.

by Chilperic0 on 2008-06-04 23:58 MDT

Lol i lost in 4 round against Center Cuz i forgot put my side... Stupid Thelephone

by Vesuvian on 2008-06-05 00:27 MDT

The reason Kithkin is so dominating in block is that there aren't good boardsweepers, so it doesn't get owned by putting out as many creatures on the table as possible. Block doesn't have Damnation/Wrath but Standard does. Yea yea I know there's Firespout, but Forge Tender counters that. That's why cards like Spectral Procession are much better in Block than Standard.

by ManaLeak on 2008-06-05 02:05 MDT

more oftem then not mana tithe will counter wog/damnation

by Nemcon on 2008-06-05 04:45 MDT

I like the fact that 1 Fae deck won it all and all the others lost in the first round.

by TugaChampion on 2008-06-05 04:59 MDT

Good Faeries player >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad faeries players

Some people think: oh I just drop bitterblossom and win easily! Well sometimes it's enough others it isn't but you won't always have bitterblossom. Even on MTGO I have faced mirrors and won games that were lost because they played so bad.

by coldfirero on 2008-06-05 05:00 MDT

Who plays Damnation / Wog main deck anymore ? (except maybe lark...)

by Chico_Ze on 2008-06-05 05:27 MDT

No one :(.

Faeries > All (With a Good Player playing it).

by Burton911 on 2008-06-05 06:33 MDT

"The reason Kithkin is so dominating in block is that there aren't good boardsweepers"

Firespout should clear the board if u play a control deck which plays other Removel too.

But yeah i guess a 2WW or 2BB spell is better than a 2(R/G) spell, that does almost the same (against ktihkin not in general).

by center425 on 2008-06-05 07:32 MDT

by TugaChampion on 2008-06-05 06:59 EDT

Good Faeries player >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad faeries players

by Chico_Ze on 2008-06-05 07:27 EDT

No one :(.

Faeries > All (With a Good Player playing it).

Awww you really like me. Anyway the finals were really weird, g1 he mulled to 4 and won b/c i couldn't hit a third land, g2 I have no idea what happened, I think I terrored some guys and then just outraced him with command and game 3 he made a mistake and I had 3 Scion's

by KeySam on 2008-06-05 08:50 MDT

I was testing this budged deck(thats why no mutavaults), because i need to find a deck to play in rl. Like center said i should have won the finals, i was outhinking my self in g3. Ill play it again today, with some chantges i ll see how it does then.

edit: Btw i belive g1 was the first time i won with a mulligan to 4 :p

KeySam

by Trotsky1 on 2008-06-05 09:56 MDT

Does anyone else really not like nakumarra's (excuse spelling I am cursed with the ability to butcher the spelling of the most simple names) red splash in lark. Is mirror entity really that bard that its worth adding red for just two greater gargadons. I find that really unbelievable.

by gypsy on 2008-06-05 10:08 MDT

yes gargadon is just that good, and nakamura played elves not lark. the only time entity is better, is if your opp has a lord of atlantis and u can just smash through for a lot but thats the only way its better. red doesnt hurt the mana base at all rly and gargadon is such a good card in the deck. the uw lists with out gargadons arent combo decks, their control decks. if you play red you are a combo deck

by ckfnpku on 2008-06-05 10:19 MDT

The results during the pt were much better for the lark lists with garg than for the uw ones.
However that's prolly partly due to it being new, people not knowing what to expect.

by jawsthehobo on 2008-06-05 12:01 MDT

yeah, faeries is the best deck, I would play it if my teamate wasn't taking the cards.

Reveilark was nice though

by Trotsky1 on 2008-06-05 12:16 MDT

The list from this trial is clearly not a combo version though it has the red, as it lacks bonded fetch and is essentially but the gargadons which could easily be replaced with mirror entity a pretty standard uw lark list (obv ignoring mana base) a combo version of rev would have no reason to run a full set of sower of temptations, as if its aiming to get the combo every time to win games, that really is pointless. Trial list also only runs 2 body doubles consistant with the control version as opposed to the combo infact it doesnt even run the pacts to get the combo off unmolested by counters etc.

Relevant effects of red
1. You can no longer play mutavault
2. You can no longer run a full set of mindstones, decreasing the card draw in the deck and worsening your late game.
3. You have to run more pain lands in control and also combo even life is a resource that buys you time that you do not want to give away cheaply.
4. You have to play cip tapped lands that could effect your curve effectivley slowing the deck down a turn (not always but sometimes)
5. You are able to run less basic lands making you more vunerable to magus of the moon.

Advantages of playing red

1. It gives your opponent more potential cards to consider and play around, though most intelligent players will be able to rule out alot of cards very quickly.
2. Greater Gargadon can be played earlier than mirror entity pre all other combo pieces being assembled, whilst too play a mirror entity aiming for the combo it is only safe to play after combo.

That is how I weigh the argument Im sure Im missing some points please bring them up if I am. Granted that different points carry different values and just cause one has muliple more than others doesnt make it better but in my head UW lark easily has the better points.

by jawsthehobo on 2008-06-05 12:58 MDT

actually, I dont have mutavaults,teamate took them for faeries, and garg is just better than mirror entity in so many ways when using it with sower. I would run mutavaults if I had them. And a full set of mindstones is just not good, I want the lens is for magus, Iu played against it in the trial a lot, and it was never a problem because of the lens.

But your right, I'm mostly control, I combo out maybe 1 in 7 games I win.

by Jayx on 2008-06-05 15:40 MDT

One of the biggest ways Garg is better the entity is that you can not counter it. only a few key cards can get rid of it. The synergy with sower is great and if all else fails its been proven to be a great win condition.

by Trotsky1 on 2008-06-05 16:01 MDT

A full set of mindstones is good if your only 2 colours and I really dont think you can run muta vaults and three colours so Im not gonna list that as mute .

But I've never played the uwr version of rev so its not surprising I did miss some definate points in its favour.

1. and i think this is a big one is the interaction between sower and gargadon.

2. The Lens somewhat mute the effect of magus of the moon though you would still be better off vs magus with just the 2 colour version, so though this point is weakened i think it still has a leg to stand on.

These points make the argument alot more even. I guess the statistics from PT probably tip the balance in this case in the uwr versions favour.

Though I dont attach to much value to them for a couple of reasons 1. The UWR was less played than the UW so its much easier for it to produce better numbers less sucesses needed, true its equally as easy for it too produce bad numbers by the same reasoning but both decks were a sucess so clearly in this case its only going to work 1 way. You could only get a fair assessment if you had an equal sample size of both.2. THe luck factor more relevant at pts where less people as going to make mistakes and how the cards is stacked is more relevant than ever. It takes more than 1 tournaments worth of results to completely debunk an established deck and build. The difference between the two decks sucess wise could easily be an unaccurate reflection ie the deck which is better say 40% of the time out performed the deck which is better 60% of the time, happens all the time in poker, Roland De Wolfe has made a carrer off of it.

by elisa on 2008-06-05 16:37 MDT

conkisstador es mi puta

by PV on 2008-06-05 20:18 MDT

I like that deck xP

by gypsy on 2008-06-05 22:04 MDT

trotsky you can play mutavaults in the 3 colour version, you want coldsteel heart over lens and mind stone 90% of the time. you only need to play 4 battlefield forge, while uw plays 4 adarkar wastes so your point isnt valid. and why would u not play 4 sowers, its a wog when you combo off then u just smash their face. the only good point you made was about the basic lands and cipt lands, but the difference isnt rly that big most of the time.