Sep 2006 T2 Deck lists: UBw Control, WWu Weenie, Zoo, MonoU Snow Control

by Rodry on 2006-08-29 12:59 MDT

1rst deck its mori's Ubw

by vizion_15 on 2006-08-29 13:14 MDT

2!!!! snow controlle rock
grats to Archimede

by Babar on 2006-08-29 13:25 MDT

zitor's deck was crazy to play ^^

by blayhck on 2006-08-29 13:28 MDT

VIZION_15, U´RE A CHEATER u had lost , and u reported u won...

by vizion_15 on 2006-08-29 13:46 MDT

dont comme back whyt thas

by Labunas on 2006-08-29 14:01 MDT

6th
PS weenie returns anthem 4ever

by zero on 2006-08-29 14:09 MDT

a mono blue control deck running 19 lands, nice deck vizion_15 ._.'

PS gratz to babar for make top 2 beating 3 spaniards in a row

by Rodry on 2006-08-29 14:11 MDT

Yes, i played to him and won really easy lol.

WW is not back, trials now sux more than never =/

by vizion_15 on 2006-08-29 14:16 MDT

by Rodry on 2006-08-29 16:11 EDT

Yes, i played to him and won really easy lol.

WW is not back, trials now sux more than never =/

i have mana short 2 game in row c commom

by Columbus on 2006-08-29 15:10 MDT

The 1st place deck everyone is playing is called Structure and Force, 1st place NETDECK from 2006 Nationals, in Tokyo, Japan.

Children: it takes absolutely NO skill to copy a netdeck and "win" with it.
Is that all you're capable of? Ripping other people's decks and ideas off? Can't you think for yourselves? Are you that shallow-minded and empty-headed that you can't think up a deck of your own?

Are you that bad at Magic that you need to resort to playing other people's decks because your minds can't seem to expand, or grasp the idea of building something of your own?

I'd rather lose with my own decks than "win" with someone else's. Because you're not really winning. The person who built the deck is the one winning; you're just stealing the victory from him.

They really should change Magic-League.com to Netdeck-Central.com

All these so called "good" players around here aren't good at all. They're just thieves who steal 1st place decks from the net. If everyone built their own decks and played, THEN we'd see who the good players actually are.

Bunch of overrated, netdecking imbeciles.

by zoo on 2006-08-29 15:31 MDT

Colombus you are a fool!
I hate losing, maybe you enjoy it. Netdecks are net decks but the players still are better than you and me. Why when I play a net deck do I never win? And it always seems the same names are there in top 8. I bet you would not top 8 with any netdeck, because you dont have the skill, the ability to see turns in the future, the ability to force through the correct spells, when to attack, when to consolidate.
Go ahead and lose with your crappy "home-made" deck. Maybe one day you will make a break through deck that will be net decked, but probably not.
Shut up!

by Rotstejn on 2006-08-29 15:35 MDT

it's structure and force ... not UB control

by Vodka_7up on 2006-08-29 15:37 MDT

Most good players, even Kai Budde and Jon Finkle, didn't always make there own deck. If you have 20 ppl working on one deck, and there's just you or me Columbus, which group will come up with the better deck? It'll probably be the 20 ppl hands down. If winning is important to you there's no reason not to netdeck or modifying an existing netdeck. But I'd rather not mess with something that has more then 200+ hr's of work into it in a span of 10 mins, especially in this format where the variety of opponents is deeper then it probably has ever been.

I also disagree with how you say there's no skill involved in playing a netdeck. That's completely untrue. That's basically saying "there's no skill playing a deck." Most netdecks require a lot of judgements calls, such as heartbeat. I'm sure counterbalance requires tough calls as well.

I will agree with you that I more people probably shoudl be trying to make there own deck, since it's a huge part of magic, the creativity to pick what you'll play. But it's a hard process and simply put I find Ravnica a lame set.

Oh and you don't steal someone's wins from them if you take there deck, take Mike FLores for example. Decent player, but far better deck builder. I'm sure that he doesn't have 1000 wins stored up in him for all of us to steal. Nice rant though.

by buda on 2006-08-29 15:47 MDT

what a stupid coment, i never see you at a PT,NATS, when you play serious magic you net deck to know the metagame, a word you probably didnt know about, and it works like this: you try to beat the best deck or the top deck or you play the top deck, that structure and force deck is no t easy to play, so skill is involved in net decking, try using that deck without any prectice and win with it, you wouldnt. I hae a uestion to you, is Mori a great player??? becase he dindt build that deck a friend of him build it. I hope you little crying mind evolved so you can move from 0-4 in a FNM to like 3-4 in a PTQ and someday qulfieng to a PT or a nats, good day MR. Master deck builder

by avataroflaw on 2006-08-29 16:09 MDT

well, i netdecked once for FNM, didnt know how to use it, or anything about the numbers of types of cards in the deck, and got first =/
im not agreeing with what Colombus said, but even tho he's 90% wrong, he's still 10% right.

by SarcasticRat on 2006-08-29 16:35 MDT

"by Columbus on 2006-08-29 16:10 CDT

The 1st place deck everyone is playing is called Structure and Force, 1st place NETDECK from 2006 Nationals, in Tokyo, Japan.

Children: it takes absolutely NO skill to copy a netdeck and "win" with it.
Is that all you're capable of? Ripping other people's decks and ideas off? Can't you think for yourselves? Are you that shallow-minded and empty-headed that you can't think up a deck of your own?

Are you that bad at Magic that you need to resort to playing other people's decks because your minds can't seem to expand, or grasp the idea of building something of your own?

I'd rather lose with my own decks than "win" with someone else's. Because you're not really winning. The person who built the deck is the one winning; you're just stealing the victory from him.

They really should change Magic-League.com to Netdeck-Central.com

All these so called "good" players around here aren't good at all. They're just thieves who steal 1st place decks from the net. If everyone built their own decks and played, THEN we'd see who the good players actually are.

Bunch of overrated, netdecking imbeciles."

You're a fucking idiot. Go drown in your own bathtub. Every damn week you come on here and bitch at everyone about how they netdeck, like it's some sort of crime. Meanwhile you never play in anything because you're probably some overweight pussy living in his own basement who is afraid of any kind of human contact. If you're such a master of the magical cards, why can't you even manage to defeat the very "scrubs" that you talk down to? Where are your tournament results? What have you done lately? Until you can answer those questions with an answer other than drooling on yourself, shut your fucking retarded face and go back to watching Nick at Night in your underwear while eating cheetos you fat piece of shit.

by cimc on 2006-08-29 16:54 MDT

hmm why its called Structure and Force?
I lost to this deck cuase its obv rapes heartbeat, ppl netdeck its ok its fine its fun original decks r usually bad unless u become a pro and then ur allowed to build your own crazy deck and tell ppl its good aka this weird pile that won trail

by floodstorm64 on 2006-08-29 17:11 MDT

...aka this weird pile that won trail

AND Japan nats?

by FFSmusher on 2006-08-29 17:15 MDT

Constructed Rating History of Columbus
ID Tourney Round Date Time Opponent K-Value W/L/D Rating Change Rating
277115 Season Rating Performance 05/23 00:41 2006 Q1 0 L -31 1569

gg
anyway if you like to build your decks that much and win with them, play sealed deck ;) otherwise STFU

by Porno_Starz on 2006-08-29 17:22 MDT

Drop it FloodStorm64, cimc hates all hearbeat's bad match up lol

netdeck it because want to try it. left pontif & thread is sideboard as you can see.

i don t know how your country work but french's build were always test with few player.Each know a lot the deck because they test the deck together ( with or against).

but only one player think about the sinergy of the deck.And after all nats,all idea were tested and all deck from standart was created. Some of them are only know in one country ( Counter Azami for french )

sry from my english

by ElvenTitz on 2006-08-29 17:30 MDT

Net is okay. Archimede wants rating he netdecks and getting it. Btw i see this deck as very difficult to play. Most of Home-Made decks are very simple to play, and very rarely - effective. A truly difficult to play deck that have very high potention can be designed only by group of pro-players who probably could win almost every non-pro opponent with every deck with elves. I myself played an extended deck (balancing tings) vs Oliver Ruel at russian 9th realize, Oliver played some draft junk. he always owned me. given im trying to see few future turns and calculate consiquences - he always overmastered me. Even if they netdeck - they still can own any of us without it. A pro is really more than a deck.
So i think netdecking is pretty okay.

by NahHolmes on 2006-08-29 17:39 MDT

Columbus is just one of those guys who can't beat netdecks so he just cries about how cheap they are. He stopped playing here months ago because he couldn't win a match, check his ratings.

by Dr_Moo on 2006-08-29 17:50 MDT

I'll lead off by saying that Columbus might be the dumbest person to use these boards.

I'll end with my astonishment that a monoblue control deck with 19 lands and an awful sideboard made Top 4.

by affinity104 on 2006-08-29 17:52 MDT

Columbus why don't you win every week. If you play a good deck then may be you can finaly do well. But you probably still won't because you suck. Even Pros netdeck so shut the fuck up and go kill your self!

by goodgame on 2006-08-29 18:02 MDT

Most pro tour winning/t8ing decks are not run by the person who created them. Jon Finkel won US nats with a deck that Flores built. The Structure and Force was not designed by Mori but instead by another Jap pro (cant remember his name). The moral: netdecking is a necessary evil. If you are a good player you may win some tourneys by netdecking and some by playing original decks. I won a states by playing an original deck and I won $600 at an amateur tourney playing a netdeck. Ill play whatever gives me the best chance of winning, which is what most pros do as well.

As for a mono blue deck t4ing a trial ITS MAGIC LEAGUE!!! In case you didnt notice, it doesnt take much to win a trial here :/

by Russell_Nash on 2006-08-29 18:06 MDT

Columbus: "it takes absolutely NO skill to copy a netdeck and "win" with it." I should have stop reading there, that is easily the DUMBEST thing I’ve ever heard anyone say about magic in my life. (If you didn’t design your own deck then it takes no skill to play.) You are stupid and we all envy the blind a little after reading your childish rantings.

"I'd rather lose with my own decks than "win" with someone else's. Because you're not really winning." Then what’s the problem? If you rather keep losing then why did you even both to open your dumbass mouth? Just keep with your shitty home brews while everyone else grows in skill by adopting and learning skills by other players succes.

Don’t be lame. Honestly what do anti-net decks expect? a successful deck to arise and everyone should just ignore it and pretend it doesn’t exist and keep working with old ideas. Sorry buddy but magic grows and if you don’t like that I’d suggest you try a new game.

by vizion_15 on 2006-08-29 18:26 MDT

Columbus WTF do you think everyone pass all ther day to built deck hell no whe have a life not only magic mb you build your deck at your howne all day but thas you i play my pile but i have aredy play vs thas deck befor and i create my hown pille thas it but im not the creator off the muc snow so plz next time shut up thk

teamwasteland

by Columbus on 2006-08-29 18:34 MDT

Sexican, you're not too bright, are you?

My ML rating has nothing to do with how I play in real life. Magic League is where I test my deck ideas to see if they're any good. My real life rating is almost 1900. Magic League is a testing ground for ideas, nothing more.

My rating in real life is higher than yours, much higher and get this: I don't NETDECK, JACKASS.

gg

by Columbus on 2006-08-29 18:37 MDT

by Tesseract on 2006-08-29 18:40 MDT

even though i don't agree with the way you say it, you are right in a way. using another ones deck is a form of cheating and credit shoud go to the builder not the person who copied the deck

by MW|Core on 2006-08-29 18:42 MDT

very nice conversations

by dv8r on 2006-08-29 18:57 MDT

....wow you people are all idiots... especially Columbus.... He's obviously saying that to get a rise out of you, and suceeding.

I don't believe Columbus' irl rating is anywhere near 1900, not because he doesn't netdeck (I generally don't and my constructed is higher than 1900), but because you fail to grasp the basic concept of why netdecking happens and why it is important. if magic-league is a place to test ideas why do you care that someone netdecked a deck and won with it in the first place?

by IAmSoDamSian on 2006-08-29 19:00 MDT

"Mori was piloting Structure and Force, a three-color control deck that abused Sensei's Divining Top in conjunction with both Dark Confidant and Counterbalance, that was designed by Saito's Charleston teammate Tomohiro Kaji

And Columbus says "You're using someone elses ideas and someone else's brains to "win." Sorry, but anyone with half a brain could see that's not really winning. It's cheating."

OMG MORI IS A CHEATER DCI BAN HIM PLZ!

by Russell_Nash on 2006-08-29 19:15 MDT

Netdecking is not equal to cheating on jeopardy, not at all. Success at Jeopardy is only measured by one factor: knowledge. If you didn't use your skills at that single factor then its cheating. Magic on the other hand is measured by MANY factors most important: deck design and play skill. Both are not required to have skill at magic. You can be good at playing and bad at designing or the other way around, both are notable skills.

Winning with a Net deck is like painting a PERFECT replica of the Mona Lisa. Sure you won/made some great art, but you didn’t do it original so it’s a not quite as good. Do both still require skill? Yes. Are both worth noting? Yes. Is it better to win/paint your own ideas? I think so. Should the person who made the perfect replica be awarded all the fame of the deck design/substance of the painting? No. Is the perfect replica worth something? Sure. Can you still have skill while coping others decks/paintings to the tee? Definitely. Painting is just like magic in the sense that there is two key elements: in magic its deck design and play skill and in painting its form and expression. A artist can be great at one while not even touching on the other and still be considered a great artist. I think that is just the case with magic.

100% agree with dv8r. If you have a 1900 rating its cause the people you play with every week totally suck. Anyone’s opinion of magic worth half a can of beans knows that not only is net decking an inevitable part of magic, but it is also some what beneficial; like playing a deck according to the meta-game (an element of magic that wouldn’t even exist if not for netdecking)

LoL @ IAmSoDamSian

by RiQuS|P on 2006-08-29 19:45 MDT

Columbus you're a retard. It still requires certain skill to play a deck (near) perfect.

So if you don't like it, go /j #whine somewhere else.

by RichardDWade on 2006-08-29 20:30 MDT

Netdecking is equal to this: If you were a contestant on Jeopardy and were wearing a headset that no one else could see. Every time Alex asked a question, a past winner of the show would whisper the answers in your headset and you'd repeat them, "winning" the game.

That's the same thing as netdecking. You're using someone elses ideas and someone else's brains to "win." Sorry, but anyone with half a brain could see that's not really winning. It's cheating.

Thats the most retarded comparison I have ever seen. Im not a fan of netdecking, but they are right.. If you are here to win, use a proven deck.
That jeopardy analogy is inaccurate because of this... If it were the case with this "headset" all competitors would have to know the answers before hand, and not netdecking would be like trying to come up with a better answer. Colombus, just stop.

by Russell_Nash on 2006-08-29 20:31 MDT

Columbus: Net decking is not cheating. Cheating is a dishonest violation of the rules. No where is magic rules does it say that your 60card deck has to be original. Also cheating creates an unfair advantage. there is no unfair advantage in using someone else’s deck list. You have just as much of an opportunity to use that deck as he does therefor making it not an unfair advantage. The more crap you talk Columbus the dumber you make yourself look and make it more and more obvious that you have no idea what your talking about.

by kebe on 2006-08-29 20:37 MDT

I wish colombus wud take a "netdeck" and try to win with it
because i garuntee he would not
insulting decks that win events are just making up for his inability to win regardless of whether or not he made his own deck
btw doubts on his irl neiong 1900 prob more like 1400

by center425 on 2006-08-29 20:39 MDT

nice job vizion_15

by dv8r on 2006-08-29 21:28 MDT

no need to flame the poor guy....

by KeySam on 2006-08-29 21:36 MDT

hi all i readed the hohle "thread", and first of all columbus you are just to aggressive. I understand that you hate that all those peoples just play netdecks cause its kind of boring and i also think like you that a very big part of magic is to build your own deck. I think we all made our own decks at the beginning and i try myself all the time. I also builded about 2 decks then are 50% competitive i guess. I also dont want to netdeck myself but you shouldnt forgett that its all about winning and if you 1. dont have the time to build your own deck 2. dont want to build your own deck
Then you cant say the people sucks they just playing a good testet deck. Thats all fine nothing is wrong with this. And if you loose to the netdecks your deck isnt competetive so you just need to redo your decks. And btw i dont realy like T2 cause T2 is such a small format that its realy hard to get ideas noone has thought before. And in addition i have to agree to someone else, 90$ of all homemade decks are not competetive and easy to play. Cause not a lot of decks are played thatmutch and rebuilded thatmutch then netdecks. If sometime your deck becomes a netdeck you know you got it. Sofar for know and btw are here some players who want to build a deck in a group? Legacy or T1? i realy would love to do a deck in a group. If someone is interessted just pm me :). I am not a very good deck builder but iam not bad at all. Plz pm me if you like.

GL HF to all in further trials :)

by Void06 on 2006-08-29 21:39 MDT

19 lands?!?!?!?!??!

by nephilim206 on 2006-08-29 21:59 MDT

It seems you guys are more focused on Columbus's comment than the trial, which I think this "thread" is for. I wish you guys could actually talk about the trial and not some random comment that somebody made. Anyways, congratulations top 4 and I hope you guys do well in later trials. Structure and Force looks so cool!

Edit: about the netdecking thing, I do not support netdecking, but I do not think it is cheating and I don't think it is bad. So what if they use another person's deck! They still had the skill to win. I bet that if a player like Oliver Ruel or Tomoharu Saito or any other pro and I played with the same decklist and the same order of the cards in the deck, I would get owned. Playing Magic takes skill, not just good decks (although they really do help).

by raichoup on 2006-08-29 22:34 MDT

i'm not pro netdeck or contra netdeck, but just wanned to say that the 2nd game is the deck which won the french nats. (the player changed 2 maindeck cards).
anyway UBw is now the deck to beat!

by sex_monkey on 2006-08-29 23:46 MDT

Remove Soul :|
Jitte SB?
Wierdness.

by sonicqaz on 2006-08-29 23:48 MDT

Boooo, I have been piloting a Uw creation of mine that looks very similair to the UBw deck that has won japan nats. It kind of sucks that I didnt get a chance to win anything with it before it won something here. Oh well.

by Rotstejn on 2006-08-30 03:11 MDT

Let's all jump on colombus !

by ChristPunchr on 2006-08-30 03:18 MDT

I think the best thing for columbus to do is post his dci number. Mine is 79813. Too bad he is too big a bitch to do it.

Once again though; piloting a deck like 'structure well is not an easy thing. Magic isn't only about the cards. Since Columbus doesn't seem to understand that, I completely understand why I seldom see him any mini's or even in the mirc room, as of late.

Magical prowess consists of several things: dedication, deck building and knowledge. All of those are interconnected and if you are missing either of those, your skills on apprentice AND irl magic will be lacking.

Sure, people can build original decks but why not play with a deck that has been heavily tested by others, should it tickle you fancy.

Long story short, BAMAKY, Columbus.

by Sai_from_Fra on 2006-08-30 06:06 MDT

Good job NIM ;)

by buda on 2006-08-30 06:52 MDT

hi again
Frank Karsten on his weekly colum in magicthegathering.com ,Online Tech, said today about Structure and force: I really like the deck myself and I am planning to play it at my Nationals in two weeks. So hes not a good player cause he net deck? Antonino de Rosa, Gabe walls, Osyp, those 3 use Gazi glare at US NATS they dindt build that deck, Mori design it for last year Worlds. Billy Moreno use BW hand, the deck that olvier Ruel Top 8 in Honolulu, soooo if the Pro do it why is a crime you ass, and stop f...n kids at your local FNM you michael jackson wanabe, 1900 lol poor kids.

by Djinn on 2006-08-30 08:28 MDT

Even Masashi Oiso netdecked the UR vore from Ariel Tenenbaum

by AlexTrebek on 2006-08-30 09:10 MDT

every single tournament turns into a bitchfest about netdecking... If you don't like netdecks then don't play competitive magic.

by onecleanceli on 2006-08-30 10:19 MDT

im confused to why everyone comes on here week in and week out bitching about the same thing.... "oh he beat me b/c he netdecked, blah blah blah, go build ur own deck, blah blah blah"... did it ever occur to you that the top tier 1 decks, were original at one point of time? someone did sit down and put hours of effort into developing a deck that they thought was 'the best' and eventually a deck here and a deck there rose to the top, other players liked the way it looked and tried it out, maybe with their own tweaks and it eventually became what it is today, whether it be vore, or heartbeat, or whatever the case may be.... regardless, they ALL started off as homemade original decks... if ppl want to play them, let them, thats what we real players like to call "metagame"... it will be like that for the rest of eternity, deal with it

by ElvenTitz on 2006-08-30 10:28 MDT

stop feeding the troll. let him go.

by Mandos on 2006-08-30 11:21 MDT

@elventitz
u said this:
A truly difficult to play deck that have very high potention can be designed only by group of pro-players who probably could win almost every non-pro opponent with every deck

I dont have nothing against you but i disagree in what u said. Though most of great decks that turns into a meta decks fast are built of pro players but not all. Even a "simple mortal" can manage to build a deck like this but it rarely happnes.
Columbus how much do ya weight?
:D
Most of net decks are difficult to play!

by NahHolmes on 2006-08-30 17:14 MDT

Columbus why don't you go cry somewhere else. You don't even play on M-L why do you care. It is painfully obvious you can't beat netdecks and I'm guessing your IRL rating comes from playing vs. scrubs at local FNM's who can't afford real decks. I know a place where 2 terrible magic players are both in the mid 1900's because they can afford good cards and win every FNM in a superscrubby meta.

by sexican on 2006-09-02 08:19 MDT

I can't believe the monoU deck there has more counters than lands ;_;