April 2006 T2 Deck lists: Savage Heartbeat, Ghost Dad, Zoo

by Shagrath on 2006-03-30 03:33 MDT

Finally a top 3 with 2 decks that aren't BW agro

And ThomasG's deck isn't r/g gruul beats, it's Zoo

by Angel- on 2006-03-30 04:04 MDT

ShiK_Ri's deck should be up there too as a top 4 deck and his deck IS RG Gruul Beats. You might want to fix that.

by KaleGozer on 2006-03-30 05:09 MDT

Celestial Kirin is a very nice choice vs. those Protection creatures, I like it :-)

by loran16 on 2006-03-30 06:28 MDT

Its amazing how underplayed heartbeat is in magic-league. It is very very good, Has strong matchups vs Standard Ghost Dad )not sure on C-b's verison) and zoo and rg beats, as well as other bw concoctions.

The only really bad matchups are MUC, which isnt competitive, and UR Magnivore, which is a bummer.

I beat Ghost-Dad, Mono White Tron, Zoo, Greater Good-Gifts, Zoo, Ghost Dad to win this thing. Im 15-3 with the deck overall.

Here's a question though. Why the hell did zoo decks start playing shock over moldervine? I see this sooo often recently. Moldervine is REALLY REALLY good. It is better than shock in almost all situations. There is NO reason why it doesnt make MD. (Also Solifuge not MD is interesting..., though thats not something i see around the league).

by Duress on 2006-03-30 06:52 MDT

loran16: my list is similar to yours except i've replaced iwamoris with kodama norths. what do you think about this?

by Wludyka on 2006-03-30 08:12 MDT

i'm thinking he ripped bracht's deck almost exactly

by loran16 on 2006-03-30 08:29 MDT

wludyka, bracht didnt have twister main, and that was huge (though i wont claim to be the one who suggested that). Also the Extra weird harvest in the side (which i dont see other's doing) is a huge boost to BW matchups.

Duress:, Kodoma comes down a turn later, and cant handle jitte. He also dies to ghost council, and you primarily go beatdown games 2 or 3 vs BW decks like Ghost Dad or hand in hand. So I really really prefer Iwamori. It doesnt matter if they drop Ghost counicl off of iwamori, as iwamori can barrel right through him, plus the ability to hold a jitte can just be killer.

But thats my opinion. I actually didnt board in the beatdown plan vs C-board because his first game against me he played nothing but eiganjo, so i wasnt COMPLETELY sure what i was up against.

by NahHolmes on 2006-03-30 09:10 MDT

Cranial naming Heartbeat hurts bad and BW aggro are very popular and not a good matchup for Heartbeat. This is why it's not as popular in M-L.

by C-Board on 2006-03-30 09:10 MDT

Kirin is very very good in this format, I really dont know how dad won without it

it gives you a much better chance vs decks like bw aggro, as now, you have an answer to a jitted paladin.

The interesting fact that I had about this trial was the sheer amount of mulligans I had, 12 In the entire tournament, and nobody got especially unlucky with the exception on Shik_Rei on g3.

Ill make a tournament report shortly.

Congrats loran, heartbeat is some good

by loran16 on 2006-03-30 09:22 MDT

NahHolmes.

Crainal on Heartbet is dumb. I can WIN if you cranial heartbeat. Cranial on Harvest is the way to go.

Besides, BW decks are favorable game 1, and then switching to sideboard is 50/50 game 2 if they bring in the discard. So it is a favorable matchup.

And yeah, Daro/C-board got sooo unlucky. He most definitely deserved a rematch of that finals (well at least game 1).

by Meatwarz on 2006-03-30 10:13 MDT

Strange..if u look in all decks from the Trial the 3rd is RG Aggro by ShiK_ri and then goes the ThomasG's Zoo....

by sorot on 2006-03-30 11:34 MDT

Good Modify

by ant900 on 2006-03-30 11:46 MDT

gj daro, love the kirens

by Shagrath on 2006-03-30 11:58 MDT

i like more celestial kirin

by ShiK_ri on 2006-03-30 14:00 MDT

why my deck isn't there??:S i had a very bad luck against Daro_G on game3:( congrats to the top4 decks:D i hate wb:S first time a wb aggro wb discard or wb control aren't there:D

by NahHolmes on 2006-03-30 14:04 MDT

"Crainal on Heartbet is dumb. I can WIN if you cranial heartbeat. Cranial on Harvest is the way to go." If you have 10 lands you need 3 Harvests just to make 21 mana. You can't cast Maga with just Harvest. Heartbeat gives you mana over more then one turn letting you invoke into more spells then next turn blaze for a lot, Harvest is a one shot deal you will have to save them to go lethal. I still say Cranial Heartbeat 1st if there isn't one out.

by loran16 on 2006-03-30 14:38 MDT

naholmes, First there are 4 harvests, and its not too hard to get all four.

Cranialing harvest cripples me. Trust me, im well aware of what hruts my deck. Heartbeat isnt the right thing.

And yeah, Shikri's deck should be there.

by crew on 2006-03-30 15:43 MDT

4 harvests? you mean drifts right?

by loran16 on 2006-03-30 15:44 MDT

Well i use drifts to get harvests.

But i have 4 early harvests in the deck... yes.

by Russell_Nash on 2006-03-30 15:44 MDT

i think the main issue with heartbeat not being a popular deck online is not so much that its not competitive, thats that its not too fun to play with. Honesly you could get almost just as much practice with the deck jsut play solitare games with it.

and celestial kirin is a great addition in ghost dad GJ

by Alandariel on 2006-03-30 15:46 MDT

Shikri's deck shouldn't be anywhere near there. =/ He beat me game three by stalling to time. I was playing WB Aggro... He made so many error's game 2 it's not even funny.

Not to mention he whined about CoP the whole game, and has the audacity to call me a noob. I will admit the likeliness of me winning game three fairly wasn't good. But he stalled on his turn knowing that if I had 2 turns I could've gotten his life lower than mine. (Unless he was holding a Char)

But nice job to loran16 and Kirin in GD is tech. I like it. Nice job, guys.

Oh, and NahHolmes, you'll be happy to know that I have an invite to your team waiting for me. :D Get used to me. =P

by Stryfe- on 2006-03-30 15:53 MDT

nice alandariel

by ShiK_ri on 2006-03-30 16:46 MDT

Alandariel stalling????I NEVER stall it wasn't my problem because you commit a big mistake in playing a plains instead of a swamp u commited so many errors that they caused you to lose and you stalled in g2 cause u wanted to draw and then to win in g3 but finally i won because of you:D
thanx alandariel!!

by NahHolmes on 2006-03-30 18:05 MDT

BTW the Heartbeat guy is just trying to throw everyone off with the "PLZ CRANIAL MY HARVEST THING". Who is going to argue the best way to beat their pet deck? If it's easy to get all 4 Harvests it is just as easy to get the Heartbeats. He has to transmute into them then hope to God you can't resolve a Cranial before he gets enough lands + Harvests to go lethal. Whats harder 7-8 lands and 2 Heartbeats or 10+ lands and 3 Harvests hmmmm yeah we are not fooled sorry.

by BurningStar4 on 2006-03-30 18:06 MDT

No Mortify's really hurt the BW deck's chances vs Heartbeat. 2 KoAL isnt enough game one, and when they side the beats in, Mortify would be pretty much necessary.

Oh, and go Heartbeat w/ a Twister main.

by C-Board on 2006-03-30 18:14 MDT

mortify is a waste of space in GD, if heartbeat picks up popularity, the third KOAL can be added

Im willing to accept that I have next to 0 chances vs heartbeat g1

by RonTrauma on 2006-03-30 18:34 MDT

I agree with loran16, Cranialing the Harvest is the way to go. They never even drop the Heartbeat until they go off anyway, dropping it and passing the turn is almost an autoloss. Cranialing the Harvest, they have no chance of going off at all. I've been playing this deck competitively for a while now, just not on here. Big props to loran for winning with it.
Viva La Savage Twister!!!!!!

by PV on 2006-03-30 20:39 MDT

3x early harvest with 10 mana is 31 mana, not 21.

by Unavailable on 2006-03-30 20:47 MDT

NahHolmes: BW variants have Mortify, KOAL and some builds even play Terashi's Grasp. All of these can deal with Hearbeat. Notice that KOAL is maindeck in Ghost Dad and Mortify is maindeck in most decks that have B and W.
So, you got all this to destroy enchantments, but your only way to nullify Early Harvest is by Cranialling it. In other words, it's a loss of time and usually a bad plan to Cranial naming Heartbeat since you've already got stuff to handle that.
---
Nice twist on Ghost Dad, by the way. I've always liked Celestial Kirin (like, it destroys permanents for no additional costs, it's an add-on to every spell you play), but there was never a good opportunity for this card to be played -- until now.

by Shady on 2006-03-30 21:20 MDT

celestial kirin is actualyl really, really bad in ghost dad. It dies immediately to last gasp/shoal/mortifu=y and you really will never be able to kill protection cratures because a sicking shoal pitching pillory kills meloku, not paladen-en vec.

by loran16 on 2006-03-30 21:35 MDT

meh. Im also meh on the kirin.

Playing it for 2 is terrible (against hand of cruelty/honor), and playing it for 3 ( to kill Paladin) will kill any pillories.

The infernal kirin i like a bit in the sb, because if you play a shoal for 1 (3cc) you can take out a ton of heartbeat's weapons.

by KaleGozer on 2006-03-31 08:56 MDT

Some points:

- Cranial should almost always name Early Harvest, not Heartbeat ._. If your opponent wins on Heartbeat by the time they get there, you either DESERVE to lose or were BOUND to lose, because it's something like turn 10 then and you still haven't killed your opponent...

- Bottled Cloister seems like a nice but underplayed SB card for Heartbeat, since not only does it give you some nice extra cards (providing they don't have Grasp, but that's worth the risk), it could also save one of your crucial combo-pieces from Cranial, since the Cloister protects your hand from it.

- Since I'm testing GhostDad for weeks now: The main problem for GhostDad vs BW Aggro is Umezawa's Jitte on a protection creature (and Bob advantage to a lesser extent, like in any BW on BW matchup). With Kirin, you can immediately Shoal to take out Jitte, Hand of Honor and Dark Confidant. Who cares if you lose your Tallowisp as well after you already received two Pillories? Please, don't make stupid arguments as "it dies immediately to last gasp/shoal/mortify", that's just plain retarded. Instead, look at what the card can do for the matchup. For the current versions of GhostDad, it can swing the game around by taking out Jitte, Hand of Honor and Dark Confidant, or even Paladin-en Vec after an untap. Remember kids, Paladin en-Vec on its own is a small nuisance (really, it is), Paladin en-Vec wielding a Jitte is a serious problem.

I'm not saying it's the end-all to all problems. What I am saying is that it's necessary for GhostDad to adapt to survive ProBlack dudes with Jittes. Kirin is an option (and it worked in Block). I'm testing Empty-Shrine Kannushi atm as another option (which worked in Block as well).

Daro_G: Looking forward to your report. Hook me up on ML if you want to discuss the deck, since I have a PTQ next week ;-) On your mulligans: I think you should add a 24th land, since you upped the cost a bit. I would probably go for Miren, the Moaning Well.

by Counterlife on 2006-03-31 10:25 MDT

LOL@PV, its 21 not including what you blew on the harvests.

by Memo on 2006-03-31 11:21 MDT

Tap 10, play harvest (7 floating)
tap 10 (17), play harvest (14 floating)
tap 10 (24), play harvest (21 floating)
tap 10 = 31 mana.

by TIm_54 on 2006-03-31 14:19 MDT

monkeys

by Shagrath on 2006-03-31 14:51 MDT

brazilians suck at maths :P

by Mau07 on 2006-03-31 17:32 MDT

Hey loran can u pls or anyother explain how the heartbreath sb ,it should be very usefull

by Shady on 2006-03-31 18:25 MDT

kalegozer: im not sure you know how kirin works

obv when you play it they are going to kill it before you untap, so you will not get to blow anything that cost 2 or 3 unless you get lucky and have rusalka in hand and havent cast it yet. So Kirin is actually really bad, and im not even mentioning the fact tat sometimes you will wipe things like your own hand of honors and your own multiple pillories to destory 1 pro black dude

abysmal :/

by KaleGozer on 2006-03-31 18:52 MDT

Shady, as far as I know, you're not a dumb person, so please don't act like it. :) When you play Celestial Kirin, you can remove any of you eight Shoals with a casting cost of your liking to destroy the things of your liking (usually: removing a Tallowsip, Pacifism or Kami of Law to destroy opponent's Jitte). Your argument that they kill it before your untap is, as I said in my previous comment, retarded, since Bob will be killed as well, as will an unprotected Ghost Council, etc etc. Regarding your argument, you could say that "Why play creatures anyway? They will get Mortified/Shoaled/Pilloried" The problem when facing BW Aggro is the Jitte ón the protection creature, not the pro dude itself. Note that you cán block Paladin with Wisp and live, while your own Hand of Honors can trade with the opponent's. It's not the pro black creature itself that's problematic, it's the Jitte.

Besides, anything that has to draw creature removal or makes the opponent lose is in my opinion a fair creature :)

by loran16 on 2006-03-31 23:59 MDT

Kale: - Bottled Cloister seems like a nice but underplayed SB card for Heartbeat, since not only does it give you some nice extra cards (providing they don't have Grasp, but that's worth the risk), it could also save one of your crucial combo-pieces from Cranial, since the Cloister protects your hand from it.

Its interesting but it doesnt fit in with the sb :-(

@Mau07: Vs certain decks, mainly BW decks like ghost dad, you sideboard out drifts, heartbeats and early harvests game 2 as they have to sideboard in extra discard and extraction. You now have a critical mass type deck that can beatdown on a removal-light (due to sb) deck. A thing to note is you shouldtn do this every time game 2, in fact sometimes you should elave in the combo game 2 (so that they dont know if you sbed or not).

It essentially makes the sb games a guessing game between you and your opponent, but one that you have the edge, as they almost certainly have to sb in some anti-combo measures just in case (especially ghost dad which will lose game 1 most times).

by Boelie on 2006-04-01 01:52 MDT

@ KaleGozer.. Removing a Tallowsip, Pacifism or Kami of Law to your shoal gives the shoal a converted manacost of 4. Thereby destroying your own Celestial Kirin.

by Alandariel on 2006-04-01 02:51 MDT

@Shik_ri... Never did I stall. I already said I made errors in g2... I still won though didn't I? In game 3 you stalled ftw. I THOUGHT... you just stalled. There was nothing you could be thinking about.

At any rate, it's over, and you didn't win. I'm perfectly happy with the results.

by Shady on 2006-04-01 09:35 MDT

sorry Kale i warned you ot to embarrass urself :[\

by KaleGozer on 2006-04-01 17:27 MDT

My bad, I thought it worked differently. You were right ;-) Apologies.